Croatia - paradise? long post

[zefender]

I’ve just returned from a two week ‘bareboat’ charter in Croatia. The good, bad and the ugly are as follows - all IMHO and no offence intended.

Good.
The boat was one year old Bav44 – in very good nick – almost OTT spec – owner is an electronics engineer apparently – invertors, over 12x220V and 6x12v sockets – air blowers, LEDS on every light switch so you can see where they are in the dark, fitted TV and top-of-mast antenna adjuster, PC + LCD, bow thrusters, radar, electric horn to frighten sunbathers on foredeck etc etc.

The water was crystal clear too, even in most of the harbours.

Wine from Vis – very good.

Some very nice old towns, behind the bussle of the waterside.

Very safe – never once locked up.

Decent loos and showers in most places.

Not so good

Weather – bloody hot and very little wind – only 4 days out of 13 really worth sailing. But I suppose the whole of Europe may have been like that this August.

People – I found them largely unfriendly, a bit cold and totally non-customer oriented. Thankfully there were exceptions but I got the feeling that they are not really ready for high volume tourism. Maybe there’s still a bit of post eastern bloc/post war hangover about.

Imray Pilot book – pretty useless really and tended to point you towards pontoon marinas which are generally devoid of any character at all. The new edition has been delayed I gather ‘til next year, probably because of the amount of updating needed.

Prices – I was a bit surprised to pay about £35 a night for a marina berth. Restaurant prices seem to be magically identical in each town and although I’m not a skinflint, £8 for a pork chop and a few chips is a bit steep. Drinkable wine seems to start at about £12 a bottle. On average, we tended to pay about £15 - £18 a head all in. I know prices in Greece have risen but that’s quite a lot by comparison (and I think the food is probably better in Greece, shock horror). Having to pay an additional £36 (crew of 6) entrance tax (per 24 hours) to Kornati Islands park (in addition to marina fee) seemed a bit rich. We also got ripped off on three (known) occasions in food stores which surprised me.

At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old git I found Croatia a bit bland and without the charm (and admitted chaos) of Greece but missing maybe the sophistication of some other med places.

Anyone else been there who can concur or disagree?


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[steve_cronin]

Greece welcomes back...

..repentent prodigals! All is forgiven.

Wouldn't saty that Croatia is new at tourism. There are those who might say that you can't expect these countries to remain as under developed peasant nations just to give you a cheap holiday and that you are seeing their early attempts at capitalism. There are those who might say this.

Very valuable information though which Mr Heikell or Mr & Mrs Thompson might not think it appropriate to include in their Pilots & Guides. At £35 a night I will avoid the area. Slovenia is MUCH cheaper and so is Turkey but in the latter the purchase of a cruising permit (which charterers often only make use of for two nights) might bring you to nearer the Croatia figure.

Steve Cronin



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[Roberto]

I have been sailing there almost each year for the past 25 years, all seasons, plus our boat with other crew goes there at least 4/5 times a year, the whole crew is a living pilot book in itself. We also sailed there during the war, when the islands were almost untouched and nato forces followed the boat with monster floodlights at night, an experience in itself.

Weather: one should sail with NE winds from 0200am till 0600am, then stop for sleep a few hours and sail with NW from 1300 on, the mornings are usually used to motor or remain at anchor. This summer has been on the lighter side of wind strength; best conditions I found were in september and esp june (longest daylights), fresher air. Winter can be very nasty.

People - I agree with you, they are not brazilian but still they have just come out of a war. I have to admit that many visiting sailors are unpleasantly showing off wealth (not even much) and disrespect, money can buy everything maybe but a simple dobro dosli or doberdan goes a long way.

Prices yes, they have skyrocketed recently. With our 42ft we paid roughly 15euro 5/7 years ago, 25 euro 3years ago, 50 euro last week. I agree about food also, rather on the down trend.

I think it is a wonderful place to go outside the jul aug months, imagine Vis island, or Polace (north of Mljet) with just two three boats... This year I went there in August for the first time in many years and honestly have been disappointed, but May June and september remain wonderful months: more wind, less people, more caring Croatians.

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[zefender]

Thought you might reply quickly!

I know August is not the best benchmark month - maybe in a year or two family commitments will mean we can go outside the peak. Agree too about the flashy wealth bit but I'm definitely not in that camp!

'Fraid we didn't make Mijet or Polace due to little wind - think I regret that.

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[zefender]

Re: Greece welcomes back...

What is new is the recent massive increase in Croatian tourism - next year it will apparently vie as one of the most popular destinations. I'm not convinced it will cope.

I not one for maintaining third world economies just to get a quick 2 week break but given the average monthly salary of a Croatian and the likely rents/cost of property and food products, it seems difficult to justify prices at more than a lunch at the local UK Rose & Crown. Yes, I appreciate the Rose & Crown gets business all year round, but still...

Onpilots, I did see what looked like a muich better book called 777 or something like it. It seemed to show many more harbours with useful symbols for prevailing wind, protection from, facilities etc. Trouble is, I couldn't find a copy (a German guy on the pontoon next to me showed me a copy)

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[charles_reed]

Continental Europe in July & August

where-ever you go in the high season, it's overcrowded, expensive, too hot and lacking any decent winds.

I'd say the same about the Balearics where prices, food and attitudes were all unacceptable.

I, now, always come back to the UK for those two months and carry on cruising outside of the high season.

Still it's useful, if disappointing to know, about Croatia .
Certainly your criticism of the Imray Pilot appears to be common.

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[ecudc]

I spent a fantastic 2 weeks last year in Croatia, one on flotilla, one on Miljet. We did go later in the season but.....

Wind: We only had one dud sailing day, generally the wind was pretty good although. I think last year the problem was too much wind not too little.

Pilot book: Didn't really use the pilot book as the lead boat had local knowledge but it was a little off (e.g. suggesting there was water available when there wasn't) when we did look at it, hopefully that will be covered in the update.

Food: OK not that imaginative but certainly in most of the tavernas we visited the food was fresh and good. One in Milet had just two things on the menu...meat and fish but cooked to perfection on a log fire and you see the owner out catching the fish every morning.

Prices: Some of the tavernas were a little pricier than you would think. We spent only one night in a marina (at Dubrovnik) which was well worth the price of I think £25 ish for a 33 footer, close to town, good supermarket and a swimming pool and Dubrovnik town is a gem. Generally we spent the night tied up outside a taverna for little or no fee except the understanding that that’s where you’ll be eating tonight. We usually found food in supermarkets dirt cheap, a litre bottle of beer being about 60p ish on the mainland.

People: Some were great, some unusual (like the local erm….watering his garden as we walked past) and no one overtly unfriendly. We spent a fantastic evening watching Croatian who wants to be a millionaire with the owner of the tavern translating for us.

Maybe we just got lucky or were in the better cruising area but I would absolutely go again. It's so beautiful and unspoilt, quiet and laidback. It’s how I imagine Greece was 20 years ago.


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[Neraida]

Without wanting to sound like I'm defending Greece as I was raised there, I do think it's very much a question of attitude. In the Ionian and many islands of the Aegean there's so much choice that you just have to be picky and be prepared to either sail for a bit longer or just plain stay away from charter zones. Athens 20 years ago was unspoilt, the islands apart from the big ones were unknown to most tourists. It's always the case in popular areas where quality is compromised, even so, every cloud has a silver lining.

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[Twister_Ken]

Add to the 'goods'

The town of Trogir
The clearest water I have ever seen (in the Kornati)
Compared to Greece, good lighthouses/buoyage
Decent English language weather forecasts from Split radio, and an Italian station
Marinas, some (Rogonizca) very chi-chi, well staffed, lazy lines,
Potable water on quays (except in some of the Kornati)
Good fresh produce from local markets
Lots of naturist sailors

Add to the 'bads'

Overcrowded in July/August
If you want a marina berth, get in early (hence steep prices?)
Lots of overweight, wrinkly naturist sailors


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[zefender]

Agree with the list of goods, apart from
Rogoniza - if you're referring to the swanky Frappa Marina, which I found a ghastly, sterile place which could have been anywhere in the world.
Fresh produce from local markets - but much of what I saw certainly wasn't local

I was surprised that we could get into every marina/quay we tried though we were cautious enough to get in by 1800, just in case. The naturist lot certainly tend to have too much to flaunt but these were countered by some remarkable barely attired deck decorations.

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[Twister_Ken]

Thoughts on mooring in Croatia

I does take a certain degree of determined singlemindedness to make a good fist of boat parking when the neighbours waiting to take your lines are starkers. Bad enough when they have lost the battle with gravity, even worse when they haven't yet succumbed.

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[ecudc]

No I agree that you can still find some real gems in greece, and have had many an enjoyable holiday there. I just hope that in croatia they manage to hold off on the very large scale development that blights much of Europes coast. At the moment the big hotels are few and far between (Although there is an absolute shocker outside Dubrovnik) and it is a refreshing change.

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[MedMan]

Croatia - an even longer reply!

We arrived in Croatia on 20th April 2001 having travelled north from our winter base in Malta. We had originally intended to return south for the winter but we loved it so much that we decided to stay. Croatia is a fabulous cruising destination: the scenery is stunning, anchorages are plentiful, and there is always a harbour or marina within reach.

Formalities
Formalities are minimal. You must enter the country at a designated port where you will be visited by the Police (Immigration) and Customs and be asked to complete a form and present your papers at the Harbour Master’s Office. We cleared in at Gruž where the whole process took 45 minutes. A nice police lady looked at our passports (2 minutes), a customs officer asked if we had anything to declare (1 minute) and filling in the form took 15 minutes. The remainder of the time was spent walking to the nearest cash machine and back to obtain local currency for our Cruising Permit: for our 10.7 metre boat this cost 1,295 Kuna (£110). For the best year’s cruising of our life we consider it money very well spent. One unexpected benefit of the Cruising Permit is the complete lack of form filling at any other harbour. All one does is to hand in the Permit upon arrival and collect it when you pay to leave. What a time saver that would have been in France, Spain, Portugal and Italy!

Before we left we had been concerned about a statement in the Adriatic Pilot that talks about the need for a ‘Certificate of Seaworthiness’. The Croatian Tourist Office site (http://www.htz.hr/nautic_regulations.htm) also gives prices for what it calls ‘Compensation for attesting the seaworthiness of foreign yachts, sport sailing boats and sport boats’. Worry not about these. If you have normal registration documents and your boat doesn’t appear to be sinking, you will just be asked to fill out the form and hand over your cash.

Some printed information suggests that you need Visas if you are going to Croatia for more than three months. This does not appear to be the case. When you complete the application form for your Cruising Permit you also complete a Crew List. So long as your Cruising Permit is valid and your Crew List is up to date, that is all that appears to be required. However, if you have a change of crew (or additions) you must complete a revised Crew List every time.

Charts
The Croatian Hydrographic Office produces two Small Craft Chart Folios at a scale of 1:100,000 which, between them, cover the entire Croatian coastline and all the off lying islands. Known as ‘Male Karte’ they are updated every year and represent superb value at 200 Kuna (£17) each. The Northern Folio (north of Dugi Otok) contains 12 charts each 50cm x 35cm and the Southern Folio contains 17. A few of the charts even have large-scale harbour plans printed on the reverse side. Our recommendation would be to equip yourself with a suitable small-scale passage-making chart to get yourself here and buy one or both Male Karte folios when you arrive.

Pilots
We used the Adriatic Pilot by T and D Thompson published by Imray Laurie Norie & Wilson. It is difficult to find your way around and, by modern standards, the photographs and chartlets are poor. Never-the-less, it gives good quality information and represents a massive undertaking by the authors to whom I am most grateful. We also bought a copy of the locally-produced English version of the ‘official’ yachtsman’s pilot. It looked as if it would be good as it was dated 2001 and appeared to contain some very useful chartlets. However, despite its publication date, much of the information is hopelessly out of date, some of it pre (1991) war. I do not recommend it.

Currency and Cash
On the strength of a statement in the Adriatic Pilot we obtained Master Cards before we left as we normally use Visa. We need not have bothered. Visa, Master Card and Amex Credit Cards along with Cirrus/Maestro and Visa Debit Cards are now widely accepted in shops and Cash Machines. Cash Machines are plentiful in the larger mainland towns but can be hard to find on the islands. However, many Post Offices (it may be all, but I cannot attest to that) have a ‘human cash machine’. You queue at the counter and hand over your card, which the teller swipes through a machine. With Cirrus/Maestro cards you then tap your PIN number into the machine just as you would with an ATM and, hey presto, you are handed the cash. With Visa Debit cards the PIN number does not work so you have to produce ID. They ask for a passport but they accept our encapsulated photocopy of the back page that we keep for such purposes. Having checked my bank statements very carefully I can confirm that the service costs no more than cash from an ATM.

Charges
Despite the annual Cruising Permit, the charges in ‘Regulated Anchorages’ and an average of £17 per night in marinas, we have had our cheapest year in the Mediterranean. The simple reason for this is the huge number of unregulated, beautiful, deserted anchorages where one can lie for as long as one wishes for absolutely nothing. On top of that, most town quays and many marinas will allow from 2 to 4 hours mooring free of charge so that you can shop. However, if you do this, you will usually have to pay a small fee for water. Annual berthing contracts are particularly reasonable and some marinas will issue contracts at the annual rate for periods in excess of 6 months – very useful for over-wintering. Diesel is a fixed price throughout Croatia and is cheap – 5.2 Kuna (44p) per litre.

Mooring
All marinas have laid moorings, generally tailed back to the quay. Many harbours now have the same but in a few you will have to lie bows (or stern) to your anchor, stern (or bows) to the quay. In many anchorages, particularly south of Split and in the peak season you will need to moor in a similar way. This is partly because that is what all the locals do so it is difficult to do otherwise, partly because many of the anchorages are tight and partly because many are deep. A typical night at anchor on, say, Otok Hvar might entail dropping your bower anchor in 12 metres and motoring back on 40 metres of chain until you can send a member of the crew in a dinghy to tie back to the shore. For this reason you will need:
a) A substantial length of chain on your bower anchor. We have 60m and have frequently used 40m to 50m.
b) Some long ropes for tying back to the shore. We usually use a 40m length, which is about right.
c) One or two lengths of old chain for looping around rocks when tying back. We have 2 x 10m lengths.
In the so-called ‘Regulated Anchorages’ in the Zadar Region a charge is made irrespective of whether you moor to one of the buoys or anchor. Much criticism has been made of this system, but we found nothing to which one could object. The buoys are generally well maintained, (but do check!) the charges are reasonable and rubbish is collected.

Weather and Forecasts
Much of the Adriatic is further north than the north coast of Spain and close enough to the UK to be affected by many of the depressions that pass over our friends at home. You will need an umbrella and you will need antifreeze in your engine if you leave it ashore in the winter. That said, we found the climate very pleasant with a lot of sunshine and no excessive heat. (We did come back to the UK from mid July to mid August)
Good Weather forecasts are published in English, daily at all marinas. They include a three-day outlook and we have found them to be very reliable. An abbreviated form of the same forecast (without the outlook) is broadcast twice a day on Navtex. It takes practice to interpret as it is very much abbreviated and the English can be ambiguous, but once the technique is mastered these forecasts too are reliable. I would, therefore, suggest that, if you do not have one, a Navtex should be high on your list of priorities for Father Christmas! There are automated forecasts broadcast on VHF but the range is very limited. We did not find these useful.

Miscellaneous Notes
Just one or two other points in no particular order: Many people speak some English, especially in the more touristy areas. Those who do not may speak German or Italian but, if they speak none of these, they are likely to be patient and friendly in finding a way to communicate. Croatian people are northern European in their approach to life rather than Latin. Brits are well received. Supermarkets are small and the variety of food is very limited. Bread, however, is excellent. There are no laundrettes to be found but some marinas have laundries where you can leave your washing and pick it up later. Costs vary from 50 to 100 Kuna (£4.25 to £8.50) per load. We found wasps to be a serious problem in some places in the summer but we encountered no jellyfish.


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[Twister_Ken]

many thanks

and it sounds like a good time was had by all.

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[Metabarca]

Croatia

I have just returned from two one-week cruises in Dalmatia and have noted that prices have shot up in the eateries, for grub that is at best passable. Meat is good and cheap but I can eat much better fish (generally) here in Trieste for the same money. Supplies are generally expensive (but okay, it has to be trucked/shipped in from quite a way) and I get the impression that the locals believe that tourists can be bled infinitely and are gullible to a man. Very often they are right. And unlike a few years ago, with the rise of chartering, they don't need to offer the same level of service as in the past on the islands; there will be new punters next year... Alas, the Croatians are not a very lovable people, with more chips on their shoulders than you can find at a McDonald's (wild generalisation!). But we must make a distinction between the true Dalmatians from the coast (Zara) and Croatians from the hinterland who are generally more wooden-headed and far more nationalistic.
But what the hell, the scenery is splendid and even if you have to go in August and suffer heat, little wind and high prices, there are still lots of places where you can anchor overnight on your own (oh yes there are!). But whereas until 5 years ago, I would happily go in August, now I aim for July or September, and eat far more aboard than I used to.
Slovenia: very different people, relaxed but efficient, slightly complacent (who wouldn't be in their position?!), but with only about 20 miles of coastline... Pirano is very attractive if you can get in and offers good eating by the sea.

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