Crime levels in the Caribbean?

[TigaWave]

Its got busier since I first sailed there in 89, the scare stories were there in Venzuela then a few more incidents in Trini in 2001-02.

A trip wire attached to a rape alarm meant we would know if anyone came aboard, but we only used this a few times when we were the only boat tied to a dock that was a bit on the remote side, St eustatia.

The river Tamar however saw a friends rudder removed, which messed up a whole seasons sailing as he waited for a new one to be made. And we always lock the boat up on the mooring there.

 

[fiveflipflops]

Our boat is currently Trinidad after cruising the Carribean. We will be staying in the Carribean for the next 2-3 years. We have never felt the need to lock the boat at night when onboard. We do have grills for foreward hatch and wash boards. The reason for the grills is we can leave the boat open to the breeze when we go ashore.

If the only reason the sailors do not go to the carribean is the possibility of crime then that would be a opportunity missed.

Emma and David

 

[LadyJessie]

Emma and David: yes, life and cruising are very much about finding and exploring what you are comfortable with. I have sailed all my life and I have never felt the need to put bars on my hatches. If I would, I would leave the area pretty quickly. You have made another choice and are obviously willing to accept bars on your boat. I am happy for you, it is just not my cruising style.

 

[Anonymous]

Here in the Med, we always lock when we go ashore unless we are sure that someone is watching and if it was hotter for longer and we were always at anchor we would fit bars here because if we didn't lock then our insurers wouldn't pay.

If I had to have bars or lock up to sleep at night, then I would leave the area - no question about that.

 

[douglas_family]

public invitation

I understand that much of the equipent carried by cruisers may be of value to other people with boats. Recent crimes i've herd of include stolen fenders, nav lights and anchors (not in carib), so it may not be wise to suggest you leave your boat unlocked on a public forum which also contains your boat name and location.

 

[KellysEye]

I like this thread, the more people who don't come over means less crowding and lower prices for all of us in the Caribbean. Did I mention the twelve cruisers shot at a pot-luck in...

And it's not just the local people, the reefs are dangerous too - a catamaran went up on a reef in the Aves a couple of days ago and is a writeoff. Most worrying.

 

[fiveflipflops]

Lady Jessie we do not lock ourself in at night,never have. The bars are only used when we go ashore so we can leave the foreward hatch-washboards open so the breeze can pass through the boat. Its that or come back to a very hot boat.

You asked for feedback from those WHO ARE IN the caribbean now, we are and we feel safe. To many stories and not enough doing it. The question you may want to ask the forum is who has left the caribbean because of the crime.

Emma and David

 

[LadyJessie]

[ QUOTE ]
Here in the Med, we always lock when we go ashore

[/ QUOTE ]Maybe you do in Spain, Lemain, but I don't know of many cruisers that do that in the Eastern Med. Spain, and especially Almerimar marina, is not very typical of Med conditions. I only lock my hatches when I leave the boat in a busy harbour and there are very few of those around. I can't remember when I had to lock my boat last. Most of the Med (except Spain and Italy) is extremely safe and not a great market for boat locks and bars.

It is probably true that you get spoiled by this safe comfort after awhile and you easily set your expectations higher than is reasonable for the rest of the world. Having said that, I know that there are still enough safe anchorages around the world where you don't have to fit bars to your hatches to be able to enjoy (?) the environment. You just have to find them and bypass the few that have a problem.

To David and Emma: that is indeed a good question, but the better one is how many have not arrived because of the crime level reported?

 

[Anonymous]

I think that the vast majority of people in Almerimar leave their boats open in the day, when they go ashore but we lock the main door. It doesn't take a second, it would make it far more difficult for the opportunistic thief, and would make it possible to claim on insurance - with our boat it does not really reduce the ventilation and in the heat of the summer we usually have the aircon running anyway, in the marina.

The fact that you don't lock your boat and have not yet had a burglary does not mean that you don't need to lock up.

Frankly I think that Almerimar is as safe as anywhere. What few problems there have been have mostly been other yachtsmen. Very sad, but I suppose that's a worldwide problem?

 

[LadyJessie]

Yes Lemain. I have also heard that Spanish marinas can have very iffy security. However, the majority of Med cruisers do not sit around in marinas but are out at anchor in nice bays or in small village harbours. My experience of those are that they are very safe and without the need to lock up the boat when you go ashore.

 

[Anonymous]

We've talked about going to the Caribbean and the things that put me off are:-

The trip. The majority (80%) people we've talked to one to one have taken a hammering of one sort or another getting there. Some of it pretty serious stuff with a real risk to life and property. Those who have come back usually have more horror stories about the trip back than the trip out.

The cost. I've been told that it is very much more expensive over there (though depends where you are). However, I gather that one is seldom if ever in a marina?

Getting back to the UK for visits. Expensive for you and your family.

There must be some huge compensations or people wouldn't do it - many for the second and third time....what is it that makes the Caribbean such a popular playground for yachtsmen?

 

[ChrisE]

Wind! And the fact that you have a load of islands which are relatively close together to sail to. And, dare I say it, different eonugh from the Med to feel distinctly foreign and un-European.

That said I did one season there and wouldn't go back for the same reasons that I won't go back to the Eastern Med, too commercial and too many liveaboards! But then I'm a miserable beggar at the best of times......

 

[Anonymous]

OK, so quality of sailing is a big factor? That would suit me but my wife puts up with the 'getting there' (which I do) to enjoy the 'being there' (which she does /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif). What's the 'being there' like?

 

[ChrisE]

To my eyes a mixture between commercial interests (big, for the influx of tourists and small, the ever present boatboys) and a lazy third world charm.

I'd guess that 30 years ago the place was really charming but for me a bit overrun with tourists. Eg, you find yourself a nice quite anchorage in, say the Grenadines, and you are quickly joined by the charter boats and if you are really unlucky a crusie ship.

I'm sure that with persistance you can find a bit of P&Q but the problem is that all of the nice spots are well charted and described in the many excellent pilots, such as Chris Doyle's, for the area.

Now, if you want a real adventure could I suggest ***** and the NE tip of **** which is still prisitne and the locals treat you are loved guests rathere than another opportunity to make money. That is real third world and you are completely left to your own devices. You didn't think that I was gonig to tell you where it was, did you /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Carling]

My wife and I always wander about on our own when we are abroad and St Lucia was somewhere where I felt the need to keep my wits about me, more than some other places.
My wife was told, by a holiday rep, not to walk by herself to and from the Marina. A couple of people we talked to were robbed whilst we were there, one was a 20+ year-old lad on a beach, surrounded by tourists sunbathing. The ARC was running and security was higher than at other times of the year.
We were not over cautious, but never wore expensive watches, jewelry or carried cameras and never pulled a wad of notes out to pay for drinks, etc. and found the place safe for us. I will be going back and will take the same precautions.
BUT WHAT EVER YOU DO, GO AND VISIT THESE PLACES!! KEEP IT IN PERSPECTIVE, THERE ARE NOT MANY PLACES MORE VIOLENT AND DANGEROUS THAN MANY BRITISH CITIES ON A BOOZEY WEEKEND NIGHT.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Just talking about the windwards, the leewards and the Virgins;

Crowded, but not nearly as bad as W Med, busier than Greek islands tho. About the same density of marinas as in Greece (assuming some of the Greek marinas were completed), but lots and lots of quite spacious anchorages. No need for night sailing.

Quite big variation between islands is very satisfying. From yacht dense BVI to lovely little laid back places like Bequia to bustling St Georges on Grenada via a bit of France in Martinique. Only St Vincent and St Lucia left me cold; boat boys and the fact that 'resorts' were isolated from the local communities said a lot.

Winds consistent F3 to F6 and far more predictable, steady day and night - diurnal effects small, and no F& out a dead calm without warning. Usual gusting effects down wind of islands. Expect lots of sun, varying cloud, and a shower every day. Avoid from May to November - very high humidity.

All anchorages/marinas geared to entertaining yotties - American style - many of whom will be charterers. Cook aboard food easily obtainable, frequent bars, some good entertainment (very different from anything in Europe!), UK prices. Even some Americans complain about cost of living.

Which (for long termers) leaves out Domenica, Haiti, Jamaica, Trinidad and the mainland, which (in terms of local population and number of yachts) is a completely different and more adventurous (threatening to some?) type of cruising. Let someone else contribute here - I haven't done enough around there to comment.

 

[Bajansailor]

Re: Sailing to the Windies.....

Lemain, I am amazed to read that 80% of the folk you have talked to 'took a hammering' on their voyage to the Windies - I suspect that they were embellishing their stories a bit..... for most boats the run from the Canaries (or Cabo Verdes) to the Windies is a classic milk run (with a few exceptions, but certainly not 80%).

The passage across Biscay (or from Gib for yourselves in the Med) is probably going to be the most challenging part of the voyage - IMHO sailing across the English / French channel is in many ways more challenging than across the Atlantic from the Canaries to the Caribbean (and I have been across both a few times).

The trip back via Bermuda and the Azores can be a bit more difficult - very often there is a singular lack of wind, and it helps to have lots of extra jerry cans of fuel on board.....

Re costs, marinas in the Windwards (Grenada to Martinique) are relatively few and far between, but there are many nice anchorages along the way, almost all of which are 'free'.
You will have to pay customs clearance fees when you sail between the islands (its more of a hassle factor rather than cost - lots of paper work involved usually!), and some (like St Vincent & the Grenadines, and the BVI's) charge a cruising fee of sorts - usually based on number of people on board and time spent in the waters of that island.
And I think that there are fees in the Tobago Cays now (compulsory use of moorings?) - I havent been there for a few years.

The Tobago Cays can get very busy in the winter season - well over a hundred boats in the anchorage is common - but anybody who is a bit more intrepid than the main flock can go and anchor behind the reef surrounding the wee island of Petit Tabac (just to the east of the main group) and the odds are that you might have this anchorage to yourself.
Similarly, folk might complain that Admiralty Bay in Bequia is very crowded - but if they just 'go around the corner' to Friendship Bay they might find only a few yachts there.

There are lots of anchorages 'off the beaten path', and the Cruising Guides will tell you all about them, usually with nice colour aerial photos to help with the pilotage.
May I suggest to anyone interested in 'crossing the pond' to acquire a copy of one of these Cruising Guides to the area - two that come to mind are the excellent guides by Chris Doyle and Don Street, although there are various others as well - and do a bit of background reading beforehand.

Re food costs, anything imported is relatively expensive, local produce (and rum!) can be less than eg in the UK. For a different world, sail over to Martinique or Guadeloupe and you are immediately back in France with Euros, Boulangeries and Wine boxes, at a cost not much more (I think) than mainland France.
However most of the English speaking islands (like us) are tied to the US dollar, hence the exchange rate is very favourable for GBPs and Euros - a few years ago the rate was GBP 1 = US$1.50, now it is about US$2. So you might be pleasantly surprised by the costs of many things!

Re flying back to the UK - OK, its not like going across Europe where you can get flights for a fiver, but you can usually get a return ticket from the Windies to England for GBP 3-400, depending on time of year / demand. And flights from the UK to the Windies are invariably cheaper, often substantially - probably due to supply and demand.
BTW, Virgin often have relatively cheap fares from Barbados (maybe Antigua as well?) to England over Christmas, as everybody wants to come out here for C'mas (usually expensive!), and not many folk are keen on returning just before, hence they are just trying to 'put bums on seats' for the return passage.

 

[KellysEye]

If you go ocean sailing you will get pasted at some point (we have twice), it just comes with the territory and isn't a problem if you have a well-found boat.
Once in the Caribbean the only expensive islands are USVI, BVI, Martinique and Guadeloupe which are basically European prices - everywhere else is cheaper, Venezuela mind numbingly so.

Everyone has mentioned good sailing winds, short island hopping etc. But most people miss the best thing about the Caribbean because they put their boats on the hard or in a marina for hurricane season (and many go home).

However, unlike the Med, the Caribbean is a 12 month sailing area. Go south and you can sail the southern Caribbean (Venezuela, ABC's, Columbia etc) during hurricane season. Down here you get away from the madding crowd and there are bays and island groups that make the eastern island chain look like a tourist infested cess pit.

Take the Venezuelan out-islands for example. There is no crime (French yachts apart) because there is nobody there other than friendly fishermen You could spend a year in the Rocques, visit a different beach every day of the year and not see another soul. The Aves are the same. For sheer beauty there is nothing in the Med that even comes close. You can trade for lobsters (two packs of cigarettes for 3 lobsters on one occasion) and fish with the fishermen, or catch them yourself. The only problem is there is nowhere to fill dive tanks unless you can find a boat with a compressor.

Then when you are bored with that, having stopped in Cartagena (beautiful Columbian city) go to the San Blas islands, and up the western Caribbean to Cuba. It's good sailing, it's dirt cheap and mainly unspoilt.

That's what the Caribbean is really about. Real gain for a little ocean pain. If you do go south and west it does help to speak at least some basic Spanish - you get a much more rewarding experience by chatting to the friendly locals, who love to talk to you.

 

[Sea Devil]

[ QUOTE ]
We've talked about going to the Caribbean and the things that put me off are:-

The trip. The majority (80%) people we've talked to one to one have taken a hammering of one sort or another getting there. Some of it pretty serious stuff with a real risk to life and property. Those who have come back usually have more horror stories about the trip back than the trip out.

The cost. I've been told that it is very much more expensive over there (though depends where you are). However, I gather that one is seldom if ever in a marina?

Getting back to the UK for visits. Expensive for you and your family.

There must be some huge compensations or people wouldn't do it - many for the second and third time....what is it that makes the Caribbean such a popular playground for yachtsmen?

[/ QUOTE ]

How odd the perceptions of different people.
For 95% of the folks crossing the Atlantic its a downwind breeze and not difficult. A few boats have a problem but out of the 2-3 thousand??? each year its perhaps .5%

The cost is way way less than the Med - maybe half - I found the Med very expensive and the Caribbean very cheap. Ask anyone who had done both for more than just an Atlantic circuit year.

Getting back is really cheap as well.. I have used Caladonian Tobago - Gatwick for £200 return several times... Martinique - Paris £120 - OK not quite Ryan air but none the less pretty good.

In the Med there is either no wind or its on the nose.. In the Caribbean there is always wind - you sail everywhere - if you like to hoist the sails and get there without even thinking of the motor its the place to be and excepting the hurricane season the weather forecasting is a hundred times better than the Med forecasts which are a bit of a joke.

You could spend a lifetime cruising the Caribbean - so many places - so many anchorages - such a wonderful life style.. I spent 5 years in the Med and felt I had more than got the T shirt -

Michael

PS... I endorse everything Kellyseye says... The Americans know about the Caribbean - lots spend decades there... and the Bahamas and the ABCs and Venezuela but come to the Med and find it .... expensive and windless

 

[jimbaerselman]

[ QUOTE ]
How odd the perceptions of different people.

The cost is way way less than the Med - maybe half - I found the Med very expensive and the Caribbean very cheap.

In the Med there is either no wind or its on the nose..


[/ QUOTE ] What you say is right about the west Med.

But I think you're way out about the East med - especially Greece and Turkey. I'll always give you the consistent winds of the Caribbean, but from the Peloponese to Turkey there are good lively summer winds - enough to keep anyone happy.

And cost of living? Way down. Marinas? if you use them, cheap (xcept one or two!). No cost anchoring? All over the place.

The Med is two, very different cruisng areas, though I'm not quite sure where to put the Adriatic yet . . .