Cornish Crabber

[dancrane]

Happy to compromise

Apologies for that; my own preference is for something with a stays'l. And a mizzen, ideally. And a mizzen stays'l. Get rid of the 110% genoa, and suddenly a family crew can control a much bigger boat without enduring the scary wilful tendencies that masthead sloops sometimes show.

I know a gaffer mayn't be the easiest, first-choice for a family, though it could be ideal. Certainly, the young 'uns would grow up knowing more than their in-mast furling 2011 counterparts. Sorry; dreaming again. I read Ransome's Peter Duck lately, first time since about 1985.

 

[Ubergeekian]

The idea of not using the engine for close quarters manouvering, setting or weighing anchor, making progress directly to windward or in calm weather etc. would never occur to us. That's what the engine's for. It's at least as important as the sails, probably more so.

Then you have a motor boat with auxiliary sails. Not that there is anything wrong with that - and it reinforces my earlier point that many people nowadays don't want a boat which is particularly easy or nice to sail.

 

[Coaster]

...I think you'd admit, the 'boating' you enjoy, is a watered-down version of the necessarily very skilled and rather tough salty business that sailing, fifty years ago, was...

Whilst I'm interested in history, the way in which things were done 50, 100, 200 and more years ago doesn't seem to be directly relevant to how do things now. For example, our exchange today might, 50 years ago, have taken months via the letters pages of a boating magazine. I don't judge whether the current or historic way is better, they're simply different.

I don't yet have 50 years personal experience of boating, having taught myself to sail in a Mirror dinghy during the early 1970's, at the age of 14. It certainly wasn't very skilled or rather tough.

...This type of equipment is just like the escalator or elevator - for the seriously unfit or disabled, it's a godsend, and I know very young and very mature family members are able to join in thereby, and that's great. But for those of us who wouldn't have suffered from using the stairs...

If boating is your principal means of exercise then by all means make it more arduous. However our boating involves relaxation and a modicum of comfort. We get our exercise elsewhere.

I've never kidded myself that I'm a seaman. I leave that to people whose lives are, or have been, largely on the water.

 

[dancrane]

Hear, hear.

You have it exactly, Ubergeekian. That is sailing for the kind of people who only cycle if the route is downhill. Hence no challenge, hence much reduced sense of reward. The tradgedy is, they don't seem aware what they're missing.

 

[Coaster]

Then you have a motor boat with auxiliary sails. Not that there is anything wrong with that - and it reinforces my earlier point that many people nowadays don't want a boat which is particularly easy or nice to sail.

Our boat seems both easy and nice to sail. I have often referred to it as a motorsailer. Dag Pike's definition, paraprased somewhat, says that a motorsailer is boat that can make good progress, in adverse weather, under either sail or motor. That appears to be the ideal boat for me.

I believe that our boat's hull, designed by Ed Dubois, was aimed more at sailing than motoring but it does both well.

 

[dancrane]

I reckon we mostly agree, you know?

Coaster, I only brought the suggestion up, because you yourself described very prettily, some of the fantastic experiences of being out at sea.

My outlook is that if being out there is made effortless, one might as well be watching a documentary on the experience, rather than having it.

 

[Tranona]

You have it exactly, Ubergeekian. That is sailing for the kind of people who only cycle if the route is downhill. Hence no challenge, hence much reduced sense of reward. The tradgedy is, they don't seem aware what they're missing.

You are becoming increasingly patronising. Who are you to say what people are missing or not missing? There is nothing inately superior about sailing in the way you seem to prefer - in fact I would say you represent a tiny minority view. There is plenty of choice for people who want to sail the "old fashioned" way - but very few do.

Perhaps you should keep your dreams to yourself and let everybody else get on with theirs!

 

[dancrane]

Gaff rig!!!

Take it easy, Tranona. Armchair-sailing - where every foul tide or headwind is time to start the diesel - is only half an experience, the easy half. If people only want that cushy half, that's just fine. But it's a pity if they're too wary of 'action' to discover the reward. It's fun, as I hope you know.

I like comfort and warmth and ease, at least as much as anyone who's contributed here. But sailing that way is only half the excitement too, and no challenge at all.

Many of us are becoming an easily exhausted, obese, oft incapable people - I'm not proud of myself, much. But...I've always greatly enjoyed the way the elements at sea repay the sailor's efforts and intelligent application, if he is master of the situation. And if we're too weedy to help ourselves except by reaching for the ignition, that's a sad loss.

 

[Coaster]

I entirely agree with you Tranona. I'm tempted to be impolite but will refrain. Some people are clearly incapable of understanding other perspectives. Or is there a moderately subtle troll here?

 

[Twister_Ken]

If dancrane and others want more string to pull, get a sporty boat, not an anachronism.

The mainsail on my boat has seven important bits of string, most of which are attended to frequently.

Halyard
Cunningham
Flattener
Outhaul
Sheet
Traveller
Backstay

The fact that fast modern boats will sail rapidly to windward, point high, and ghost quickly in light airs also does away with many occasions when the owner might be tempted to hit the start button for the sake of the crew.

 

[prv]

I entirely agree with you Tranona.

Me too.

I tend towards sharing Dan's approach to sailing, but I wouldn't dream of rubbishing other people's.

Pete

 

[dancrane]

No troll here.

Gentlemen, I apologise.

It is, as you say, your own choice, what type of sailing you participate in.

Personally, I'm wildly excited about the coming season, and all the thrills and spills likely to befall me.

I ought, as you say, to accept that there are plenty who prefer to...take it easy.

No hard feelings.

 

[DownWest]

While I like dancrane's slant, many 'interesting' situations would have been greatly improved by firing up a good diesel. Hacking around the aproaches to Alderney against a foul tide for several hours with a Seagull in the well giving it's best was not a great experience. Only got better when the tide changed. ('63)
Again, horses for courses. The world has moved on from the earlier boats. I like the gaffer concept (my first) but there is room for all comers ( except in the S.Coast marinas....?)
If you want to go somewhere fast, fly, for quality of transport, choose your dream. Mine is a gaffer.
A

Missed the last couple of posts.

 

[prv]

Apologies for that; my own preference is for something with a stays'l. And a mizzen, ideally. And a mizzen stays'l.

If you like having lots of sails (I do too), how about doing at least one trip with a fore-course, lower topsail, upper topsail, topgallant, royal, the whole lot again repeated on the mainmast, then main topmast staysail, main topgallant staysail, main royal staysail, fore topmast staysail, inner jib, outer jib, flying jib, and finally the spanker.

Out of season, the TSYT voyages are open to anyone, and a decent leg like the Azores to Southampton can be a cracker!

Pete
(Apologies for the quasi-spam, as I do volunteer with them from time to time.)

 

[dancrane]

Twister Ken,
thanks for that thought; as I noted earlier, the Cornish Shrimper wasn't quick, but had so much charm, you couldn't help liking it. And the Cornish Ketch and Yawl - well, to my eye, both very pretty boats.

Anachronistic? Yes, but...so are Mark 2 Jags and replica AC Cobras...and so lovely! I'm not sure if I'd find the admirable efficiency of slick modern keelboats quite so appealing. I'd enjoy the 70-degree tacking angles and double-figure speeds, but aesthetically and in terms of atmosphere aboard...not so sure.

PRV...Tall Ships...terrific idea, cheers. The post on this forum for the Malcolm Miller reminded me why I'm so enthusiastic about gaffers, or anything with more sails than the ordinaire.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Anachronistic? Yes, but...so are Mark 2 Jags and replica AC Cobras...and so lovely!

There we differ. Quaint, yes. Bizarre, maybe. Lovely, no. I can live with 20,000 mile service intervals, 50mpg, airbags everywhere and no grease beneath my fingernails quite easily.

 

[dancrane]

Yeah, to be fair I wouldn't want a Mk2 Jag; the 'nineties Jag I drove gave enough trouble. And...the Cobra would only suit good weather.

I'm not in any way opposed to the best of last quarter century's yachts. I think sloops like the Sweden 34, etc were fantastic-looking, reckoned to be solid enough and pretty good performers. The Contessa too, a while earlier.

Maybe it's just that Cornish Crabbers' method of reproducing a chine or plank effect, and plenty of wood trim, and strong colour-schemes, gave the boats character which so many contemporaries don't even attempt.

 

[Rum_Pirate]

What about a 1906 designed first rule twelve metre yacht?


http://www.1906-twelvemetre.com/19metre.html

 

[dancrane]

Yes, thank you Rum Pirate. That'll do nicely. Or maybe the Fife cutter, Moonbeam IV.

 

[prv]

the Cornish Shrimper wasn't quick, but had so much charm, you couldn't help liking it. And the Cornish Ketch and Yawl - well, to my eye, both very pretty boats.

I've already mentioned our Cornish Yawl's "performance" upwind. But put the breeze on the quarter, and she has a surprising turn of speed. That bowsprit and bumkin aren't just for looks, they let us set a 35 foot sailplan above our 24 foot hull and on a broad reach it's all pulling like crazy.

I've only been on a Shrimper once, yesterday, under power, so can't really comment on those.

Pete