Cornish Crabber

[photodog]

Nice looking Boat!

I would have one... but not at £32k..... I think something like £28k would be more appropriate to ask and be prepared to go 26k.... The problem is that they are VERY expensive new... but are a niche product...

9 months is not a lot of time to be selling a boat..... We are only now getting into the buying season proper.... A opportune time I think to drop the price a bit... do up a good website with LOTS of pictures.... and get that online as well..

Part of the problem is that the fixed keel is less attractive than the lift keel 22 and 26...

So you need a certain type. I would have thought that Suffolk would be a good place to sell her... get a local agent.

He needs to get the price down a bit as this is the best time to sell.... if he cant get it shifted between now and June then he will be missing our again...

 

[Twister_Ken]

Also, a few venues will be having Easter used-boat shows. Can he get it into one of those?

 

[boaterbaz]

Agree totally with SJ. Evoloution gone backwards.

 

[Seajet]

Boaterbaz,

Thanks !

There is only one true guide to a boat's worth...

The old story of a sailor taking an accountant chum for a weekend sail.

On leaving the boat, the accountant says " so, you pay huge money for a boat you can only use at best 2 days a week ?! "

" No, I use her 7 days a week "

" How so ? "

" For 2 days a week I sail her, the rest of the time I dream of her "

Go and buy any boat which makes your heart sing, you'll be unlikely to regret it.

 

[Lakesailor]

He needs to get the price down a bit as this is the best time to sell.... if he cant get it shifted between now and June then he will be missing our again...

That's the problem. People over-value their boats. You have to get the price down to the point that the buyers are tempted.
OK, you lose some money. Did that ever stop people changing cars? But start talking boats and people expect not to lose much money.

If you can't take a hit on value, forget about selling.

 

[Rum_Pirate]

Compare the Crabber to the CapeHenry 21

http://www.dixdesign.com/ch21.htm

 

[Bru]

Compare the Crabber to the CapeHenry 21

I have - another triumph of looks over practicality!

I REALLY seriously considered building a Cape Henry 21 until I tried a Cape Cutter 19, it's slightly smaller sister, for size and found out how cramped and awkward the thing was. Just getting down the companionway was an exercise in agility that taxed my somewhat beat up 40 odd year old bod and that was with the boat on dry land. I can't imagine how I could cope with it at sea. Comparing the plans I decided the 21 wasn't going to be much better.

And as far as the Crabbers are concerned, we seriously looked at them too when at one point it looked as though we might have some serious cash to splash out on a boat (not enough for a new one but definitely up there for a decent s/h example). I was not at all impressed with the quality of the finish on such an expensive boat. For that sort of money I don't expect to see exposed GRP strand internally nor uncapped bolt ends and nuts poking down through the deckhead - and this wasn't some beat up old junker, this was a brand new £55k boat at LIBS a few years ago.

(In contrast, our 40 odd year old RM Islander has an internal GRP moulded headlining and there isn't a bolt end to be seen anywhere - they're all neatly hidden away. She may be old and a bit tired but there's a feel of quality about the thing absent from most new boats I've looked at)

I do still hanker after a gaffer I have to confess though

 

[Bajansailor]

Paul Gartside has also designed some very sweet 'little' gaff sloops and cutters - http://www.gartsideboats.com/cat.php#sailboats

I think the largest of the 'old' Cornish Crabbers was the 34' gaff ketch Cornish Trader.
Here is one for sale on Apollo Duck - http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=183014

There was a very nice Cornish Crabber gaff sloop with a very large cockpit (and hence a rather small cabin) at the Southampton Boat Show a few years ago - she seemed bigger than 30' (on deck) though. I have a catalogue somewhere on her, will try to find it.......

 

[dancrane]

That CC ketch is fabulous! Just what I meant...with a bigger shed, Cornish Crabbers could turn out some real beauties. Imagine a 45' gaff schooner.

I never knew they'd made a 34' hull. Hard to see why they stopped.

 

[Tranona]

That CC ketch is fabulous! Just what I meant...with a bigger shed, Cornish Crabbers could turn out some real beauties. Imagine a 45' gaff schooner.

I never knew they'd made a 34' hull. Hard to see why they stopped.

'cos nobody wanted to buy them! It is really difficult to hit the "sweet spot" with boats like this. By definition they are bought by people who don't want a mainstream boat, so inevitably the market is small. Some designs like the Shrimper and the original Crabber hit it just right. Others don't do the same.

In the larger sizes (30ft+) they are very expensive if built in small volume (which is almost inevitable) and you get into the realms of custom building. You can then go to somebody like Ed Burnett and have a custom design for (relatively) little more money than a semi custom GRP hull design.

 

[photodog]

'cos nobody wanted to buy them! It is really difficult to hit the "sweet spot" with boats like this. By definition they are bought by people who don't want a mainstream boat, so inevitably the market is small. Some designs like the Shrimper and the original Crabber hit it just right. Others don't do the same.

In the larger sizes (30ft+) they are very expensive if built in small volume (which is almost inevitable) and you get into the realms of custom building. You can then go to somebody like Ed Burnett and have a custom design for (relatively) little more money than a semi custom GRP hull design.

Consider that the start price for a new 24 (the op's reference..) is £71,000.


Ouch.

I looked at the new 26 at SIBS...... but the price was simply eye watering and much as I would like something with that character...it was way way way to much money.

 

[dancrane]

I hope someone at Cornish Crabbers is reading this...

I'm daresay you're right, Tranona. Damned shame though.

Cornish Crabbers' combination of great traditional character in their various designs, plus their extended practise of building centreboarders, and their use of GRP, seems to make their boats versatile classics for people who'd sooner sail than continually restore.

I'm sure I don't understand economics, or pretend to. But when most yacht yards seem to have recently built bigger and bigger boats and have even stopped building smaller models (dare I say the 12' Cornish Cormorant?), I had supposed the mark-up per foot on the biggies, easily justified making fewer.

Given how anodyne a lot of GRP boat design has grown, and how less-than-ideal a deep fin is in many UK waters, I'd have thought a stylish, low-maintenance, 45' centreboard gaff ketch or schooner would have no shortage of takers. Surely we may be certain such boats would attract admiring attention in quantities that owners of so many near-indistinguishable white sloops can only dream about? No offence intended.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Given how anodyne a lot of GRP boat design has grown, and how less-than-ideal a deep fin is in many UK waters, I'd have thought a stylish, low-maintenance, 45' centreboard gaff ketch or schooner would have no shortage of takers.

From observation, many, many owners of AWBs are extremely averse to pulling the two pieces of string required to put their roller-reefed main and jib into operation. Even the slight additional complexity of gaff rig would sent them away screaming, and schooners/ketches double the perceived difficulty again.

I'm afraid the bulk of the market for new boats is clearly for wipe-clean motorsailers (not that they call them motorsailers) and not for anything requiring skill or time to operate.

 

[dancrane]

That's certainly regrettable, if it's true. I'm not so sure, though. Plenty of racing yachts out there, necessarily complex and demanding of crew's constant input.

I may be rather odd, enjoying the extra ropework whilst not relishing racing, but I doubt I'd be alone enjoying the gasps of delight and words of appreciation from spectators, while helming a Crabber-style schooner, bigger, taller, tops'ls set...sorry, I'm dreaming again. Am I on my own?

PS... AWB?

 

[photodog]

I dont think that the complexity of the rig is a issue.... You can spec them with a sloop rig if you want IIRC.... I think its the volume of the hull...

If we built those lift keel 26s on a benjenbav style production line in Sri lanka, they could be cheap.... but they still wouldnt sell because volume is in volume..

Swmbo and the kids still hold sway... Go to sibs... most punters spend their time below decks...

 

[Searush]

Dan;

AWB = Average White Boat

MAB = Mouldy Auld Boat (can be a wooden classic, a wet wreck or an early GRP)

 

[dancrane]

Sorry Photodog, I didn't make much sense of that. Sibs? Swmbo? Benjenbav?

I'm not sure about the hull-volume argument. I'd rather be in an XK8 than an Espace, wouldn't you?

Anyhow, if CC or someone else starts building biggish elegant GRP gaffers, I'll put my name down for one.

 

[dancrane]

Thanks Searush

All clear now. Won't forget.

 

[photodog]

Sorry Photodog, I didn't make much sense of that. Sibs? Swmbo? Benjenbav?

I'm not sure about the hull-volume argument. I'd rather be in an XK8 than an Espace, wouldn't you?

Anyhow, if CC or someone else starts building biggish elegant GRP gaffers, I'll put my name down for one.

Well yeah, but there are still more Espaces on the road than Jags!


Sibs; Southampton International Boatshow...
Swmbo; She Who Must Be Obeyed...
Benjenbav; Benetau Jennaueu bavaria ie AWB....

 

[Seajet]

From observation, many, many owners of AWBs are extremely averse to pulling the two pieces of string required to put their roller-reefed main and jib into operation. Even the slight additional complexity of gaff rig would sent them away screaming, and schooners/ketches double the perceived difficulty again.

I'm afraid the bulk of the market for new boats is clearly for wipe-clean motorsailers (not that they call them motorsailers) and not for anything requiring skill or time to operate.

I agree 100%; I was a fan of the Aphrodite 101, a true sailors's boat, but that thoroughbred still didn't sell well compared to mongrel (' how can I design more drag' ) things such as motorsailing tubs like Southelrys!