Copperbottoming a 23 metre boat: report and pix

tcm

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I have just returned from the most hardestest (?) week of manual work ever. Together with volunteers Talbot and Colholic, we applied stripper to the boat, scraped the old antifould off manually (cos the yard manager wouldn't let it be sprayed towards other boats), prepped the surface to bare GRP, then cut and fitted 110 sq metres of self-adhesive copper in five days flat - 5pm tuesday to five pm sunday. I am totally knackered, ate loads of food but lost almost half a stone. Points of interest are

1. Removall 610 afoul stripper really works. You can roller it on. But be careful when washing off cos it will lift any paint down to GRP. I bought too much - 1 litre psqm is fine for thick old antifoul, but i only needed half a litre per sq metre. I have 20 litres for sale cheapish on for sale foum.

2. The idea of a copper bottom thhese days is to inhibit growth of barnacles which can't grow on the coper oxide surface. You also get a solid surface on the grp, which is prevented from getting wet. It also lasts for ages, sono need for expensive liftouts evry year or even more often.

3. The copper comes in massive long rolls. To apply, you cut it up in foot long lengths and overlap, starting from the back. For a powerboat, expect length x breadth to be just about enough.

4. It looks the absolute biz. Boatone's site has pix - thanks boatone
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/copperbottom>http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/copperbottom</A>
But it will go green very soon of course

5. I told Coliholic to bring some bacon and he brought one packet each for every day. There's also an indian restaurant in Antibes, but i'm a bit sick of it now having been every flippin day.

6. Talbot is vair nice and careful-thinking chap, and saw probs (like missing bits) before too late and boat back in the water. Whereas me and Coliholic just slap the stuff on anyold how as fast as poss. In fact, I had to do my bits especially badly in order to match them up with Coliholic's.

7. We had Macdonals for lunch every day. Talbot went and gottem, partly cos he knackered himself day one with stripping the old antifoul. I suggested that we have quarter pounders perhaps instead of the normal Big macs, and he didn't argue. Actually, as i explained further, they don't call them quarter pounders in France. Why's so, queried Talbot innocently. See, in france they have the metric system. So what do they call them, asks Talbot. They call them a Royale with Cheese, i said. Hm. Never mind, Coliholic didn't get it either.

8. We had a quick thrash after going back in and the boat did almost 32 knots with full fuel and water. Previous best 31 knots near empty. So, my boat is nearly but not quite as fast as that git jfm who turned up too late to help from Genoa with his boat which is a knot faster, grrr.

9. This new merc AMG e55 goes really very fast indeed. Loaded with about half a tonne of copper and paint stripper we got down in just over 8 hours having stopped for 45 minutes when ahem i ran out of petrol. Running out of petrol on the autoroute costs 128 euros for the roadside visit and pouring in 10 litres of fuel. By contrast, doing over a 100mph only costs a 90 euro fine. Work that one out. If it's really incredibly hot in one of these new mercs it is likely cos one of the kids has turned up the heater in the back to 32 degrees so coins in the place between the seats are too hot to touch, but we found the right button on the way back.

10. okay, we hired dayworkers to help putting on the copper. We had one young guy for two days, another for three days. calling them "dayworkers" makes it sounds as though they are quite casual. But the french call the "travailleurs" (workers) and they worked blimming hard.

11. My airless sprayer was crap. You need a decent one for spraying Removall. Or, a roller is okay but can't apply thickly so have to do it again a bit.

12. At the boatyard, everyone thought we were totally mad, and wouldn't get it done,especially the yard manager. Then, they were all very intrested, and could have spent the entire time chatting to passers-by.

13. We slep on the boat, and got shore power, at Chantier Trehard in antibes. No security really, could come and go all day and all night.

14. The shipyard has a workaday chandlery for things you might need, but no prices on anything. erk. You just go and get it, and get billed later. We bought loads of scrapers, 7 galons of acetone, anodes, and a full set of spare anodes.

15. Coliholic worked very hard too. Yes, really! I only caught him sitting down fifteen times, although that may have been to get to the bottom of the boat. Over the five days he consumed five chicken tika marsalas, five big mac meals with extra cheeseburger, five chicken tika marsalas with rice and two nan bread, ten bottles of water, 30 rashers of bacon and two dozen eggs, and so did Talbot and I , although we ate ours a bit more daintily, I think. Oh and we hardly had much alcohol cos we were knackered, so only got thru three bottles of scotch and five bottles of wine.

16. Special thanks to talbot and coliholic for doing loads of work, and for putting up with me for almost a whole week.
 

duncan

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I wonder if it would have been more interesting starting "Together with volunteers Talbot and Colholic, we employed a stripper on the boat......."
One for next year when you go down to 'redo the antifouling' but find yourselves with time on your hands?

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coliholic

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Do I really miss boating?

Having been boatless now for 18 months, I was seriously suffering withdrawal symptoms and last week that nice man tcm came to my rescue. “Fancy a few days in the South of France on the boat” he asked. Ah, the answer to my prayers. “Just got a couple of little jobs to do first, covering the bottom of the boat with some copper sheets instead of antifouling, shouldn’t take long” So I fell for it and happily Sleasyjetted down to Nice last Wednesday evening for a few days holiday in the sun and the odd bit of messing about on the boat. What could be better?

Oh dear, how wrong I was.

By the time I got there, the boat had been lifted, chocked up, pressure washed, and tcm and Talbot had put some sooper dooper gunk on to get the antifouling off (seems it worked a dream) and the boat was ready for us to stick this Blue Peter-like sticky backed copper on the hull.

Thursday dawned bright and sunny, not a cloud in the sky, and at half eight we started what turned out to be a mammoth task. The copper is self-adhesive in big rolls about 4 inches wide and has to be cut into 15 inch long strips. The backing paper is then removed and the copper bit stuck on the hull and rollered down using a wallpaper seam roller so it’s nice and smooth and flat. Of course we stared at the stern and worked forward to minimise any leading edges. Next bit goes on overlapping the first bit by about ¼ inch. And then repeated, time and time and time again.

Thursday evening Talbot and I talked tcm into hiring a couple of day workers and by Sunday afternoon the job was done. So five of us working solidly from 8:30 to 7pm, every day, best part of 150 man-hours to do the job on tcm’s 23metre boat, I reckon we put on something like 5,500 pieces of copper, but I didn't count 'em.

A domestic crisis meant I had to come back on Sunday evening so I didn’t even get to see the boat go back in the water or for the sea trials to see if the glue is strong enough or whether the copper’s all fallen off already, but seems like it's a bit faster now though maybe because it's all dropped off already eh tcm?

So did I enjoy my little holiday? Well I don’t think I’ve ever worked so hard and I’ve got aches in muscles I didn’t know I had. Having spent 4 days sitting under a boat it makes me glad I don’t have a boat and have to do all these grotty jobs on mine. So that’s my fix of boat maintenance done for another couple of years at least.

Oh and I don't think much to this French cuisine malarky either. Bacon and eggs for breakfast, MacDonalds every lunchtime and the same Chicken Tikka Masala every evening, can't see why everyone raves so much about French cooking, tasted just like traditional English cooking to me.

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A couple of questions
1. Does it matter whether the strips are laid longtitudinally or laterally and does it matter which way the overlap is? I would have thought it does as it would seem to be better for the water to flow over the overlap rather than against it
2. Can you quote me for doing a 46 footer? I can lend you an old Fiesta van from work to get there 'coz there's no way I'm paying for petrol in that E55 thing

Looks like a nice job though. Very interested to see how it goes as my boat suffered very bad fouling last year

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burgundyben

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will be interested to see how it fayres (fairs? faires?) long term?

well done on lack of eco disasters, except what happened to the 7 gallons of acetone? did coliholic drink it?

<hr width=100% size=1>Sod the Healey - I think I'll buy an E-Type.
 

Alistairr

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Stefan,
See point 1.

Tcm,
good report, And nice pics, How thick is the copper strips?
And when the boat was back on the slings, Would the slings not damage the copper?





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coliholic

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Mike, we pondered over the same question but with lack of any "operating destructions" went with what seemed logical and developed the method as we progressed. A nice way of saying we changed our minds a bit as we went along. Well actually quite a few times.

Started at the chines at the stern and laid the strips lengthwise along the hull, then overlapped the next bit ahead of that one, so we had trailing edges as much as possible. Tried as much as possible to lay the pieces on in a sort of brickwork type pattern so not too many pieces overlapping each other, then worked down from the chine to the keel. Easiest way was to work in pairs and do three or four pieces along at a time. One person put the piece on, second one rollers it, then by that time person one has got the backing off the next bit of copper, it's ready for the next bit. Lay on three\four pieces in a line, then move down to the next row. Really interesting and stimulating work. Not.

Tricky bits were where the supports were. We knew we'd end up with some leading edges so did the bits where the slings would ultimately be going first and put double layers on there and then on the Saturday morning the yard lifted the boat off the blocks and left it hanging in the slings for us so we could do the bits where the supports had been.

No problem to give you a price for doing the job on your little boat, just give us your credit card details and the job will be done. Don't ask how much it'll be, you really don't want to know do you?



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Talbot

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I was invited for Riviera Slavery, and TCM wasn't joking! As regards the laying of the copper strips, we considered it important to minimise the exposed edge to the waterflow. Thus in places the solution is not necessarily horizontal or vertical. but rather following the shape of the chines. You also need to consider the direction of slamming as well as the more normal fwd motion. The biggest problem is handling the chock points. This would be simple if you could lift the boat and re-chock everytime you pass a chock point, but TCM wouldnt do that (he may have had a point as it took the boatyard a complete day to lift the boat, chock off and pressure wash -yes I did say a complete day - If I hadnt seen it I would not have believed it) To cope with sling damage, we put additional coats of copper over the pressure points so that if all else failed, a damaged sheet could just be trimmed back without any problems.

As regards the quote, I am not sure that would be possible as colliholic cornered the UK market in bacon, and thus there would not be sufficient for more work until the country can re-stock /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

as for the E55 - a lovely car with a very smooth ride, that will pass anything on the road except a petrol station /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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DepSol

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Apart from food and labour how much did it cost ie the copper stuff per sqm?

Pis look good, let us know how it holds once in the water.

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BrendanS

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Looks good! Can't wait to see how it fares over first and subsequent years, and if 10 year life span is likely - it's gonna be a long wait!

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Jools_of_Top_Cat

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Is this the same thing as copper coat, which I thought was a paint on job. Why have you gone this way rather than a paint on job? Is 10 years a minimum with proper copper?

Will you still be scraping weed off the boat?

Am very interested, seems hard work, but well rewarded by almost a one off application.

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aswade

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Royale with cheese...

Can't believe that tcm is the only Quentin Tarantino fan here- "Royale with cheese" thing is from "Pulp Fiction."

Told my boss (who has loads of experience with megayachts as his extended family own three boats over fifty meters and he is building a forty meter himself) about your copper coating scheme and he has been completely enthralled and agog at your mad idea and waiting anxiously to hear how it turned out. Just emailed him the picture link which should cause quite a stir among his entire crowd. I will post any feedback I get from knowledgeable megayacht owners/captains/maintenance types etc. :)

Alex



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MapisM

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That's an interesting job indeed.
Do you have any experience, or knowledge, about fitting that on wooden hulls? Pros & Cons?
Thanks in advance for advice.

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tripleace

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Re: Copperbottoming

How do you think it would hold up against gentle beaching? Drying out on mud etc.????


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tcm

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Re: Copperbottoming

Dunno. Not ever tried "gentle" beaching tho have whammed a rib up the beach and it might not withstand that too many times. It's very very stuck though - when we had to get a few of them off cos the waterline was wrong, they all came off in one piece cos of the 6mm overlap and you could lean back holding the pieces all stuck together in one long line.

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longjohnsilver

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Phew, glad I was busy last week!

It certainly looks like one hell of a job, you must all have been pleased to see the end result. Will be interested to get updates as to how it's working. Maybe I'll even get a dive to have a look!

Are you still considered to be the mad Englishman? Or maybe the maddest Englishman! ;-))

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