confirmed - belgians will fine you for having red diesel in your tank

[Gwylan]

Time for a massive invasion of 'red powered' British ships - mass disobedience might expose this for the farce it is. Or a blockade of Belgian ports, a massed sail up the Schelte at 3 knots and a blockade of Antwerp might get some attention. Works for the French fishermen.

 

[Koeketiene]

I cannot understand he principle that doing something perfectly legal in one EU state is illegal in another.

Baffling - isn't it.

2. On another note: in Belgium you can legally buy duty free alcohol and tobacco for yourself and your crew - within reason. The only pre-condition is that is has to be consumed outside Belgian territorial waters.
UK yachts carrying duty free alcohol and fags - legally bought in Belgium - have had them confiscated by C&E upon arrival in the UK.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Well done Burnham Bob!

 

[Searush]

Guapa,
The tax-free booze from Belgium is not "for consumption outside Belgium" it is only for consumption OUTSIDE THE EU. You cannot get duty free for any trip across the borders of any EU member countries. Same applies in UK, if you got duty free booze in UK & landed in Belgium, France, Holland or any other EU country it would be liable for confiscation.

You CAN have legal duty free on a trip to/from the channel islands tho.

 

[sailorman]

Well done Burnham Bob!

yes well done Bob. BUT he has only got "The Official" Line, no more the call me dave would have stated if asked something

 

[sailorman]

Guapa,
The tax-free booze from Belgium is not "for consumption outside Belgium" it is only for consumption OUTSIDE THE EU. You cannot get duty free for any trip across the borders of any EU member countries. Same applies in UK, if you got duty free booze in UK & landed in Belgium, France, Holland or any other EU country it would be liable for confiscation.

You CAN have legal duty free on a trip to/from the channel islands tho.

i dont believe you to be correct Sir

 

[Searush]

i dont believe you to be correct Sir

Please show me where I am wrong then. It is how Duty free rules have been applied to my many trips abroad - whether coming, going or transiting.

 

[sailorman]

Please show me where I am wrong then. It is how Duty free rules have been applied to my many trips abroad - whether coming, going or transiting.

sent PM

 

[Gwylan]

Ruddy diesel

The simplest way to resolve it will be to make the UK leisure boating diesel white - but it needs to be identifiable as such to deter people putting it in their road vehicles.

Why would anyone do that, when marina diesel these days seems to always quite near the forecourt price?

I got done [over €700] by the Dutch on a similar charge a few years ago and it took a lot of screaming and shouting to get my money back.
But the underlying problem has not been resolved by the politicos and their lackeys.

 

[Koeketiene]

Please show me where I am wrong then. It is how Duty free rules have been applied to my many trips abroad - whether coming, going or transiting.

Click

With the help of Google translate

Yachts (Belgian or Belgian) through the territorial waters extending from a Belgian marina to another EU (or EU) marina go, have the right goods free of duty and to pay the Belgian VAT to buy and this without any quantity limitation .

The supply is only possible in the Royal North Sea Yacht Club and the Mercator Marina in Ostend.

The consumption of duty-free goods are ONLY allowed outside territorial waters.

 

[sailorman]

Why would anyone do that, when marina diesel these days seems to always quite near the forecourt price?

I got done [over €700] by the Dutch on a similar charge a few years ago and it took a lot of screaming and shouting to get my money back.
But the underlying problem has not been resolved by the politicos and their lackeys.

Quite right

 

[Thistle]

EU legislation clearly does not allow the use of dyed diesel for leisure vessels and Member States have to conform to this. It is worth noting that Belgium also used to allow for an exemption for pleasure vessels but put an end to it on the 31st of December 2006 in order to be in conformity with said EU legislation.

Can anyone point us towards this legislation, please?

 

[westhinder]

Can we make speaking in a Belgian accent illegal - £10k fine

I hope this was an attempt at being sarcastic, but I'm afraid it merely reflects a rather shortsighted anti-european attitude that seems the norm on this forum but does not help to resolve the problem.

Belgian yachtsmen are just as much the victims of this absurd situation, as we risk being fined long after we have bought diesel in the UK. So what do we have to do? Pretend you are really in Mid-atlantic and stop coming to the UK? Any suggestions?

 

[PaulR]

Question

if the Belgian authorities are right (and lets face it as individuals nothing we can realistically do to challenge them in Belgium if tested/fined) how do UK registered yachts avoid this fine other than by avoiding Belgian waters?

My understanding (and see earlier poster who commented that he has been using white diesel since 2007 but contents of tank now still appear pink) is that even if we all chose to (practicality tricky) fill our boat tanks with white diesel from now on - tests will still show red dye presence for a considerable time .

So - how can we avoid test failure and fine?

Surely something the RYA /HMG should be on the case on or is this a question that could reasonably be posed to the Belgian authority?

 

[Nostrodamus]

Mr Thickie here,
Can we go back to basics.
What is the actual fine for?
Is it for not paying duty which has been paid?
Is it for having red dye in the fuel?
Is there an EU law against the dye or what is it that is actually wrong?
If you have a reciept to say duty has been paid to EU regulations then as a previous poster put they are fining you for having a dye.
I also do not understand the reduced duty on fuel for heating etc as a liveaboard. Do Belgian people get a reduced tax on fuel for heating their homes?
If so then it would appear there is one rule for them and another for anyone else which is not complying with EU regs.
Do they have free legal aid there? It would be sensible to spend several million of their Euros through the courts to challange or clarify what is going on.

 

[Robin]

I hope this was an attempt at being sarcastic, but I'm afraid it merely reflects a rather shortsighted anti-european attitude that seems the norm on this forum but does not help to resolve the problem.

Belgian yachtsmen are just as much the victims of this absurd situation, as we risk being fined long after we have bought diesel in the UK. So what do we have to do? Pretend you are really in Mid-atlantic and stop coming to the UK? Any suggestions?

Don't tell us, tell the numpties in charge there? We don't stop you coming here, it is the numpties over there that will fine you on your return if you dare to have any trace of red UK diesel in your tanks, even if fully tax paid. You could always have a 45 gallon drum of white Belgian diesel strapped on deck just in case?

Please excuse our sarcasm, but when faced with such totally ridiculous bloody minded beaurocracy are you really surprised? Are your fellow boaters over there just accepting this calmly or dare I ask do they too make sarcastic comments?

 

[westhinder]

Don't tell us, tell the numpties in charge there? We don't stop you coming here, it is the numpties over there that will fine you on your return if you dare to have any trace of red UK diesel in your tanks, even if fully tax paid. You could always have a 45 gallon drum of white Belgian diesel strapped on deck just in case?

Please excuse our sarcasm, but when faced with such totally ridiculous bloody minded beaurocracy are you really surprised? Are your fellow boaters over there just accepting this calmly or dare I ask do they too make sarcastic comments?

Belgian yachtsmen and clubs have been fighting this daft situation and have tried to achieve a more reasonable approach by Customs and Excise. At the moment the official position is that we should pay the fine if red diesel is found in our tanks and then appeal to the regional director of C&E, who may or may not decide to waive (part of) the fine.
I can assure you that most Belgian yachtsmen hate the sight of Customs officers walking the pontoons.
But as it seems that the heart of the matter is the dye in the diesel more than the tax that has been paid, surely the easiest way out of this is to change the type of diesel sold in UK marinas so that you are in line with the rest of Europe? As mentioned before in these threads, it is not only Belgian customs who are issuing fines.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

This EU legislation is all very one-sided, and as a Non-EU supporter, the quicker we get out of it, the better!

Fro example. The new legislation for the use of battery hen cages comes into effect soon. The UK has complied, putting some egg producers out of business, but the French (one of several EU members) have refused to comply!! Some member States seem to interpret the rules to suit themselves!

And as another example, EU legislation bans the supply of red diesel for liesure yachts. All the other EU members have complied but the UK refuses to do so.

 

[FishyInverness]

surely the easiest way out of this is to change the type of diesel sold in UK marinas so that you are in line with the rest of Europe? As mentioned before in these threads, it is not only Belgian customs who are issuing fines.

*Ahem*. Whilst I applaud your like-minded way of thinking that this is ridiculous, I would like to highlight that diesel sold is NOT in line with the rest of Europe. Ireland, an EU member state in all respects, dyes it's non-road diesel Green.

I'm wondering whether someone will point out the ridiculousness of being fined for dying diesel by taking this to the European Court of Human Rights, after all, isn't it a human right to be allowed to dye our property whatever colour we like?!

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Is it just me or are the Government and the RYA just not doing very much?

What do you expect them to do - bomb brussels? That we have the present silly arrangement rather than having to use white diesel like most of the rest of the EU is down to the RYA and UK govt doing their best for us in defiance of clear EU law. You need to remember that red diesel was only ever allowed as a short term dispensation from the EU to give the UK time to install white diesel facilities where necessary