Coming back to sails after a few petrol driven wilderness years - after advice

[bankofdad]

Evening all, been a while since i frequented these parts - so much so I've had to re register!

Years have passed and now the proud owner of 7 & 11 year old dustbin lids - whos arrival originally forced my hand to relinquish my beloved Beneteau Evasion under instruction from she who must be obeyed..

Instead we lounged around Poole on a old fat American Four Winns cruiser that wallowed around like a pig in a bath tub - them having a screaming good time whilst I sat there watching the fuel & mechanical bills accumulate to a point of nervousness - but i have been granted a pass to go back to whence we came - with certain caveats inc price...I'm in limbo between an older Southerly 105 or the like - or a Beneteau, Jeanneau, Bavaria etc - I do have a penchant for a Starlight but don't think that will be in my budget.

34-36 ft is my sweet spot. 40K is my absolute top out budget.

We currently have an empty berth in Cobbs that the pig wallowed in - so think i can pay my way to accommodate another 12 foot until the end of that contract which runs out in July 2021..If i don't find anything within a month or so i'll strike up conversation with the MDL management to see what if any monies i can get back.

If i do find a vessel to fill the berth, In July 21 I will be seeking pastures new to avoid the bridges and all the joys that come with Cobbs - and hopefully cheaper - a swing mooring I expect - maybe Salterns or the like but not dead set on staying Poole.

But it does seem to be one of the most cost effective options....sent a mail to Beaulieu for laughs...they came back with a quote of 9K. I'm paying 3.5k at the mo for our 24 footer.

Bit of a ramble but she wont listen to me blather on - & thought some kind soul on here might entertain me...So i think I'm looking for thoughts from anyone in a similar position - ie modest budget, 2 young kids & inexperienced wife so most of the heavy lifting will be on me whist they cut their teeth.

Is a lift keel a massive compromise for any future further afield passages/ longer stays away/pipe dreams or should I kill that lingering Poole harbour ridden dream now and go for a fixed keel.

And any sage thoughts on moorings to consider - we are based in Christchurch and have no desire to wallow in the mud there. But happy to go Southampton way & slightly beyond if the price is right.

Cheers

 

[Iliade]

We had a great time when the kids were young with just a Centaur. The ability to take the ground close in and almost regardless of how rough it is cannot be overstated. Thus we could spend holidays safely (& cheaply) high and dry for most of the moored time and many places were much more child friendly and accessible, e.g. Isles of Scilly, CI, etc, than would be the case with our current Evasion.

Apparently bilge keeled boats are again becoming popular in the size range you mention, but as for the price range I don't know.

We did occasionally encounter Southerly's mooring near to us, but they would have had to be more wary of the bottom.

You could just get another Evasion and a pair of legs! The 34 has good sized cabins for each rugrat and a forepeak for you & SWMBO. Wouldn't help in the shallows of Poole, but elsewhere...

 

[Frogmogman]

Although a bit smaller that your sweet spot, (because of the budget) how about a lift keel Oceanis 311 or a feeling 326 ? Either boat sails pretty well, ( I have actually sailed a 311 lift keel: it uses the hull of the original Figaro and was pleasingly quick for it's length).

The modest draught with the keel up open up greater possibilities wjhen cruising and allow you to benefit from cheaper moorings .

BENETEAU OCEANIS 311 CLIPPER Used Boat for Sale 2001 | TheYachtMarket

Feeling 326 di - Lift Keel Used Boat for Sale 1989 | TheYachtMarket

I would suggest a Sun Odyssey 35 lift keel, but you're unlikely to find one within your budget - more like 50K.

2005 Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 35 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale

 

[scottie]

Maybe too obvious but why not do a charter to see their reaction to sailing first

 

[bankofdad]

We had a great time when the kids were young with just a Centaur. The ability to take the ground close in and almost regardless of how rough it is cannot be overstated. Thus we could spend holidays safely (& cheaply) high and dry for most of the moored time and many places were much more child friendly and accessible, e.g. Isles of Scilly, CI, etc, than would be the case with our current Evasion.

Apparently bilge keeled boats are again becoming popular in the size range you mention, but as for the price range I don't know.

We did occasionally encounter Southerly's mooring near to us, but they would have had to be more wary of the bottom.

You could just get another Evasion and a pair of legs! The 34 has good sized cabins for each rugrat and a forepeak for you & SWMBO. Wouldn't help in the shallows of Poole, but elsewhere...

Thanks for that - all good points. I'm one of those types that likes something different when I invest in a vessel - spice of life n all that...Was under the impression that bilge keels were more of a handful in marinas and not so great at sea - but thats not based on any first hand experience!

 

[bankofdad]

Although a bit smaller that your sweet spot, (because of the budget) how about a lift keel Oceanis 311 or a feeling 326 ? Either boat sails pretty well, ( I have actually sailed a 311 lift keel: it uses the hull of the original Figaro and was pleasingly quick for it's length).

The modest draught with the keel up open up greater possibilities wjhen cruising and allow you to benefit from cheaper moorings .

BENETEAU OCEANIS 311 CLIPPER Used Boat for Sale 2001 | TheYachtMarket

Feeling 326 di - Lift Keel Used Boat for Sale 1989 | TheYachtMarket

I would suggest a Sun Odyssey 35 lift keel, but you're unlikely to find one within your budget - more like 50K.

2005 Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 35 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale

Nice one, some good suggestions there - was hoping I might punch higher on costs and get lower in negotiation - but have no idea of the state of the 2nd hand sailing market at the mo - my stink boat sold in 24hrs at asking which i was surprised at. Didn't even want a survey! I do like those Sun Odysseys thats for sure & thats a lovely looking boat

 

[bankofdad]

Maybe too obvious but why not do a charter to see their reaction to sailing first

We chartered last year in the med for 10 days - all good but obviously not Solent conditions! My 2 boys are game for it & SWMBO is generally happy about it - her concerns are more financial & stopping me running away with the savings in these unknown and challenging times.

 

[richardbrennan]

As far as the boat goes, a bilge keel Fulmar might fit the bill and should be within budget. As for moorings, once you get east of southampton, they tend to get expensive until you get to Portsmouth when they get cheaper again.

 

[Habebty]

You'll get a good Hunter Horizon for your money. The bilge keelers are reputedly very good.

 

[mjcoon]

Thanks for that - all good points. I'm one of those types that likes something different when I invest in a vessel - spice of life n all that...Was under the impression that bilge keels were more of a handful in marinas and not so great at sea - but that's not based on any first hand experience!

I wasn't aware that "bilge keels were more of a handful in marinas", though I'm not sure I've driven one since a 24ft Snapdragon on flotilla in 1974...

 

[MoodySabre]

A Moody 346 would fit that budget. Madam might like a boudoir cabin.

 

[Ingwe]

You should be able to pick up a Sun Odyssey 34.2 just within budget but you will struggle to get anything bigger than that within budget and under 20 years old.

 

[Uricanejack]

I wasn't aware that "bilge keels were more of a handful in marinas", though I'm not sure I've driven one since a 24ft Snapdragon on flotilla in 1974...

I expect a deep fin will point better going to wind.
theoretically a fin may be a bit more manoeuvrable in a tight spot with a slightly tighter turning circle. hmm .? I honestly wouldn’t be able to say unless I tried out two similar boats one fin keel on twin keel.
ither will be much easier than a long keel.
if the advantages of a twin work for you, it’s not a big concern.
if winning races is important, then then a fun keel will perform a bit better under sail.
in realty I wouldn’t know or probably notice with my rather lazy puttering about crusin Pub to Pub but I might notice the lower cost mooring.
For me looking for a used boat, boat cost and condition will be more important deciding factors.
Having said that I bought an old IOR designe because I enjoy it’s good performance. And I live near deep water. Worked for me.

 

[mjcoon]

theoretically a fin may be a bit more manoeuvrable in a tight spot with a slightly tighter turning circle. hmm .?

Ah, OK, I can see that a burst of power with the helm hard over could produce a better swing around a deep fin than around bilge keels.

 

[Iliade]

I can say without hesitation that my current skeg & low aspect fin keeled boat it worse in a marina than any bilge keeler I have ever walked past! She is a complete mare astern, with the rudder refusing to overcome the prop walk until going so fast that any other boats are a blur. Stopping the engine seems to offer little, if any, improvement.

At least she doesn't drift sideways with the wind much, but given a cross current...

 

[mrangry]

I can say without hesitation that my current skeg & low aspect fin keeled boat it worse in a marina than any bilge keeler I have ever walked past! She is a complete mare astern, with the rudder refusing to overcome the prop walk until going so fast that any other boats are a blur. Stopping the engine seems to offer little, if any, improvement.

At least she doesn't drift sideways with the wind much, but given a cross current...

I have found my new to me Beneteau 440 fin keeler to be equally difficult to maneuver in close quarters. It does however offer some comedy value to onlookers in the marina. I am told I need a feathering prop and not the two bladed folding currently fitted. If I ever come across a spare two grand I may buy one.

 

[Bobc]

My advice would be to line-up viewings of a number of different boats, and see what SWMBO's reaction to them is. Then focus in on the ones that she likes. It tends to make to a happier life.

My list would look something like this:-

A Southerly 105
A Bavaria (34/36)
A Beneteau (34-36)
A Westerly Fulmar
A Moody (346 or similar)

 

[Pete7]

Ah, OK, I can see that a burst of power with the helm hard over could produce a better swing around a deep fin than around bilge keels.

Having just spent a week sailing a fin keeled version of our twin keeled Moody 31, I didn't notice any real difference between the keels either sailing or maneuvering around a marina. The only minor thing noticeable was the fin had a Bruntons prop which meant the fin carried her way after you put her in neutral when approaching a pontoon. A healthy dose of reverse brought the boat to a stop. However, she did glide nicely. Something for the future to think about.