Cleat on a windlass use?

[Travelling Westerly]

I've always read that the windlass should not be used to load bear for to long IE always take the anchor chain load onto a snubber etc off the windlass when at anchor.
My electric windlass has a cleat on the top of it. It's directly in line with a spare bow roller and looks ideal to put a mooring strop on to a bouy. Can it be used for this purpose? Can't think of the cleats use if it's not designed to take a decent load.
Currently I use a Y bridle to attach to a mooring bouy but I'd like to know the purpose of the windlass cleat (Tigres windlass)
Thanks

 

[LittleSister]

It's there to catch the clothing and safety line of anyone working on the foredeck!

 

[Tranona]

The reason for using a snubber is that it takes the load off the gypsy/shaft/gears/motor. The cleat on top is different because the load is taken through the body and the attachments to the deck. The Tigres is one of the few windlasses that actually have such a cleat and seems to be commonly used to relieve the loads from the gypsy. However for a mooring strop perhaps using deck cleats is better. Ideally though a good old sampson post is the bees knees.

 

[Neeves]

Sometime the windlass is strong enough, but the deck to which the windlass is attached is not. The cleat will be, relatively, quite high - lots of lateral load. As Tranona suggests deck cleats should be designed to take lateral loads - use them.

If you take a windlass apart, which of course you complete annually, you will find that the shaft is really monstrous and nothing will bend it, but the shaft is attached to the oil filled gearbox and there is a chance of damaging the seals, with long term lateral loads.

I would use such a cleat simply as a nuisance, as Little Sister suggests - It provides something for you vent that pent up frustration.

Sadly Samson posts appear to have been consigned to the same bin as sextants and most yachts don't have them any more.

Jonathan

 

[pandos]

I tie my anchor to it so it doesn't vanish into the deep blue sea whilst I am sailing along... Very quick to release it and I can see from the cockpit that I have not forgotten to secure it,

also useful for Spinnaker pole down haul......

And for catching anything that I do not want to snag...

 

[Neeves]

I tie my anchor to it so it doesn't vanish into the deep blue sea whilst I am sailing along... Very quick to release it and I can see from the cockpit that I have not forgotten to secure it,

also useful for Spinnaker pole down haul......

And for catching anything that I do not want to snag...

If, like the rest of us, your anchor is attached to chain with something more robust that darning wool, maybe chain and a shackle - then it should not fall into the sea. However I recall some years ago an honest forum member admitted that on leaving The Solent on his way to the Med his clutch on his windlass released and he lost not only his anchor (Spade) but all the chain as well - as he did not have the bitter end of the chain secured. I recall he defined where the anchor lay, off the Needles. I think he offered it free to anyone who wanted it. I did wonder what he did to cope, absent of an anchor (but I don't recall he posted again) however as an experienced yachtsman he would carry a spare anchor and rode.

There is a lesson, or two in there somewhere

We have a strong point, roughly in line with our bow roller and we take a dyneema strop with a hook from this strong point to the anchor when on passage (we learnt one lesson from the unfortunate mishap) and we use the same strong point and strop as the fall back in the event our snubbers fail. If your bow roller has appropriate holes you can lash the anchor to the bow roller, put a pin through 2 holes in the bow roller and through the anchor or shackle or a link of chain. Your anchor has a t least 3 holes in it - you may as well use them. Once you have secured the anchor, by whatever means is both 'safe' and convenient then the final task is to release the tension developed by the windlass when the anchor was secured against the bow roller. No point in all these belts and braces to take the load off the windlass if you leave it under load anyway.

I am constantly amazed by windlass, they suffer a life of inattention and abuse, are demanded to perform herculean tasks, are constantly drenched in salt water but they are (by and large) so amazingly reliable.

Edit - and no - I do not work for a windlass company, nor any other company (so no need to 'report' me to the Mods).

Jonathan

 

[RichardS]

I don't have a cleat on my windlass although if I did I would be happy to use it for the anchor snubbing line for lunchtime stops or in light weather.

Richard

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

I've always read that the windlass should not be used to load bear for to long IE always take the anchor chain load onto a snubber etc off the windlass when at anchor.
My electric windlass has a cleat on the top of it. It's directly in line with a spare bow roller and looks ideal to put a mooring strop on to a bouy. Can it be used for this purpose? Can't think of the cleats use if it's not designed to take a decent load.
Currently I use a Y bridle to attach to a mooring bouy but I'd like to know the purpose of the windlass cleat (Tigres windlass)
Thanks

The two strops of a 'Y'- bridle should be be brought through the bow fairleads and the loops dropped on to the cleats on the respective opposite sides. If a pickup buoy is attached to one of the loops the line on this can be cleated over the loops for added security, alternatively a short length of light line can be permanently attached to one of the loops for this purpose.

 

[pandos]

If, like the rest of us, your anchor is attached to chain with something more robust that darning wool, maybe chain and a shackle - then it should not fall into the sea. However I recall some years ago an honest forum member admitted that on leaving The Solent on his way to the Med his clutch on his windlass released and he lost not only his anchor (Spade) but all the chain as well - as he did not have the bitter end of the chain secured. I recall he defined where the anchor lay, off the Needles. I think he offered it free to anyone who wanted it. I did wonder what he did to cope, absent of an anchor (but I don't recall he posted again) however as an experienced yachtsman he would carry a spare anchor and rode.

There is a lesson, or two in there somewhere

We have a strong point, roughly in line with our bow roller and we take a dyneema strop with a hook from this strong point to the anchor when on passage (we learnt one lesson from the unfortunate mishap) and we use the same strong point and strop as the fall back in the event our snubbers fail. If your bow roller has appropriate holes you can lash the anchor to the bow roller, put a pin through 2 holes in the bow roller and through the anchor or shackle or a link of chain. Your anchor has a t least 3 holes in it - you may as well use them. Once you have secured the anchor, by whatever means is both 'safe' and convenient then the final task is to release the tension developed by the windlass when the anchor was secured against the bow roller. No point in all these belts and braces to take the load off the windlass if you leave it under load anyway.

I am constantly amazed by windlass, they suffer a life of inattention and abuse, are demanded to perform herculean tasks, are constantly drenched in salt water but they are (by and large) so amazingly reliable.

Edit - and no - I do not work for a windlass company, nor any other company (so no need to 'report' me to the Mods).

Jonathan

Probably no need to advise on this forum that darning wool is not good as anchor rode.

The point I was making is that I use a strop to secure the anchor to the top of the windlass instead of a pin through holes etc..

It's a convienant use of the cleat, quicker and easier to deploy (it's a meter closer to the cockpit and higher above deck )

For the record I do have a chain on the anchor also, and a shackle and the bitter end is tied with a length of line sufficient to allow it to pass through the deck thereby allowing easy access with a knife if required.

 

[Neeves]

Probably no need to advise on this forum that darning wool is not good as anchor rode.

The point I was making is that I use a strop to secure the anchor to the top of the windlass instead of a pin through holes etc..

It's a convienant use of the cleat, quicker and easier to deploy (it's a meter closer to the cockpit and higher above deck )

For the record I do have a chain on the anchor also, and a shackle and the bitter end is tied with a length of line sufficient to allow it to pass through the deck thereby allowing easy access with a knife if required.

There was no suggestion of being critical - just a little bit of tongue in cheek.

We too have our chain secured to a 'U' bolt via a length of line

But

Previously we secured our chain direct to the 'U' bolt with a shackle, cheap shackle as it turned out (it could have been darning wool, which might have been better. We were anchoring in 10m depth over mud. The yacht ht was moving slowly aft as we deployed the chain. The clutch slipped and the chain deployed with increasing rapidity. There was bang and I watched in horror as the bitter end disappeared over the bow roller like snake down a hole. I momentarily thought, as one does, of leaping and grabbing the end. Fortunately my thought processes are slow and the snake had reached security down its hole before I had discarded the idea.

We now had 50m of 8mm chain (and an anchor) neatly deployed across a narrow bay.

We deployed our spare rode and anchor. Launched the dinghy with a grapnel hook and swept the bay methodically. With time we found the chain but lifting the chain from a small dinghy proved impossible as you are in the middle of the chain and you have to lift the whole lot. We had to abandon the 'found' chain, move the yacht to over the chain, find the chain again but using a heavier duty line then winch it in with a sheet winch (all covered in slimy mud). This exercise took most of an afternoon. But it was a lesson you do not forget - do not use cheap shackles and grapnel anchors do have their uses.

Jonathan

 

[GHA]

The point I was making is that I use a strop to secure the anchor to the top of the windlass instead of a pin through holes etc..

It's a convienant use of the cleat, quicker and easier to deploy (it's a meter closer to the cockpit and higher above deck )

Securing the hook under way - first use of a cleat on top of a windlass I've heard which makes any sense

 

[Graham376]

I've always read that the windlass should not be used to load bear for to long IE always take the anchor chain load onto a snubber etc off the windlass when at anchor.
My electric windlass has a cleat on the top of it. It's directly in line with a spare bow roller and looks ideal to put a mooring strop on to a bouy. Can it be used for this purpose? Can't think of the cleats use if it's not designed to take a decent load.
Currently I use a Y bridle to attach to a mooring bouy but I'd like to know the purpose of the windlass cleat (Tigres windlass)
Thanks

Having seen the mounting studs torn out of a windlass body with snatch loads when anchored, nothing would tempt me to use that cleat for heavy loads. Fine when having a rest when hauling or parking the anchor, but not for anchoring use.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Probably no need to advise on this forum that darning wool is not good as anchor rode.

The point I was making is that I use a strop to secure the anchor to the top of the windlass instead of a pin through holes etc..

It's a convienant use of the cleat, quicker and easier to deploy (it's a meter closer to the cockpit and higher above deck )

For the record I do have a chain on the anchor also, and a shackle and the bitter end is tied with a length of line sufficient to allow it to pass through the deck thereby allowing easy access with a knife if required.

Indeed.
Our anchor self-deployed when the bolt, acting as a retaining pin, lost it's nut and fell out in a bouncy sea. I took me a moment to realize what the noise coming from the bow was. By that time it was already in a full rush and I wasn't about to stick my hand in it to stop it. The 8mm strop on the bitter end finally brought it to a rather abrupt stop.
It is is truly amazing how much 8mm chain one can haul in by hand and in a short time. When I eventually retrieved the anchor, I noticed some fresh mud on it's tip, although the length of chain barely coincided with the water depth; I took that as a sign of our new anchor's gratifyingly aggressive propensity to seek out and hang on to the bottom.
We now use a self-latching pin and a strop.

 

[Refueler]

I wonder if the cleat is to be used to transfer the anchor rode from windlass to another secure point ... basically a strop that once chain fast can be released ?

 

[Neeves]

The answer, or the reason, to the OP's question (and its an interesting and obvious question (to which none of us has an answer that satisfies everyone (or anyone) might be to read the operating instructions or (if the answer is not there) to ask the manufacturer.

It is interesting that such a device is missing from most windlass - which might be indicative of ..... something?

So Cornishwesterly as you have us intrigued - do you have the time and courage to read the manual or in its absence email direct to the manufacturer? and then advise the answer, if any?

Jonathan

 

[pandos]

I suspect the intended use is to make off a line being used on the non chain side.

 

[Travelling Westerly]

The answer, or the reason, to the OP's question (and its an interesting and obvious question (to which none of us has an answer that satisfies everyone (or anyone) might be to read the operating instructions or (if the answer is not there) to ask the manufacturer.

It is interesting that such a device is missing from most windlass - which might be indicative of ..... something?

So Cornishwesterly as you have us intrigued - do you have the time and courage to read the manual or in its absence email direct to the manufacturer? and then advise the answer, if any?

Jonathan

I've already asked Jimmy Green when ordering a new anchor rode. They weren't sure either. However we jointly decided to put a loop in the bitter end of the Anchor plait rode (60m 12mm chain and 20m anchor plait) to go over the cleat if the whole rode was deployed. Not sure why but thinking was it could be used temporarily.
I have, since buying a new Knox anchor, used the cleat to run a strop from it to the Knox roll bar. It's worked very well in keeping the anchor very secure. It never moved once during some very bumpy seas off Lands End and the anchor sure got a beating during that transit.

 

[Refueler]

Its funny OP asking about cleat on a windlass ..... I have never figured out why the 'tongue' on mine .... about all I've ever used it for - is a foot rest to raise one foot when working the 'bar' ...

It has no internal parts .. just a 'tongue' extended back from top of casing.

Note - That's an old photo and it has been cleaned ... serviced and painted since then !

 

[Mudisox]

I always understood that the winch "workings and gears" were the things not to leave taking the strain/load.
Bridles, securing for sea, normal securing the anchor at the mooring etc is to cleats using nylon rope.
I also use a rolling hitch to secure it to chain rather than an expensive and 'hard to find' chain stopper!

 

[Refueler]

I always understood that the winch "workings and gears" were the things not to leave taking the strain/load.
Bridles, securing for sea, normal securing the anchor at the mooring etc is to cleats using nylon rope.
I also use a rolling hitch to secure it to chain rather than an expensive and 'hard to find' chain stopper!

Can I ask why you specify Nylon ? There are good and bad nylon cordage ....

I have a nylon rope that I use for non boaty stuff that if left outside will quickly degrade with UV / sun and literally fall apart.

There are many synthetic and composite ropes out there as good as or better than nylon ...

May sound stuff of Horror movies to you - but last year I replaced all sheets and halyards ... typical cordage .... it was all recycled into mooring lines / strops .... many alternative uses. Cosmetically it looked its age and for good orders sake - replaced it all. None of it old or new is nylon.