Cleaning up windlass motor

[Sea Change]

Figured I would start a new thread now that I have narrowed down my windlass trouble.
For those who missed the thrilling opening installment, I have a Lofrans Tigres which was becoming less and less reliable. Applying voltage directly to the motor terminals would make it run occasionally after some persuasion with a hammer. So I think it's safe to say the brushes are dirty and/or sticking?

The brushes are behind cross-headed caps which absolutely refuse to move. Even with two people working on it, with leverage applied to the screwdriver, and after a good dousing with WD40.

How much heat can I apply? It's a motor so I guess there are various non metallic components inside, like insulation on the wiring. I presume I'd have to be very careful with the heat. Maybe a hot air gun set on low?

I've also taken off the end cap from the motor and have been blasting firstly WD40 (because it has a straw) and then electrical contact cleaner inside. I'm aware that WD40 may not do the bearings any good. I'm getting a good stream of black gunk to come out this way.

Any further suggestions? Could I take it a place that works with starter motors etc?

 

[RunAgroundHard]

I would use a small amount of diesel on the threads over the motor brushes after heating up the threads. Diesel will penetrate better than WD40 (assuming you are not using WD40 brand penetrating fluid, which if you are, leave overnight and soak regularly as it seeps in). Impact driver may work, or frequent medium / heavy taps on the caps to break the bond. If you can pour boiling water from a kettle over the caps, a few fills, that may also expand the hole around the cap and break the bond.

1. Diesel (assuming you don't have penetrating oil), over night.
2. About 15 minutes of tapping hardish over the cap.
3. Impact driver (if you have one).
4. Boiling water douches to expand the metal and break the bond.

A "place that works with starter motors" might be the easiest solution and fastest if nearby. The above worked for me on a stainless bolt in an alloy casting, which went from impossible to releasing by medium hand pressure.

Good luck.

 

[Sea Change]

And I take it I don't really want any diesel, water, etc getting inside the motor itself?

In more positive news, I've been able to fit the motor from my other windlass so I'm up and running for now. Although I recall that the older windlass used to occasionally just click without turning so I suspect it will suffer the same fate soon though. And of course the brush caps on it were absolutely solid too.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

And I take it I don't really want any diesel, water, etc getting inside the motor itself? ...

Not a good idea. But if dismantling completely it can be dried out and cleaned up, likely without much damage.

 

[pioneer]

I used a local (to me) motor repairer who dismantled the motor and repaired the damage caused through water ingress.
Why the motor was IP21 rated in a deck mounted windlass is beyond me. The prevention of water ingress relies on a 2mm dia gasket approx 100mm across sandwiched between 2 substantial aluminium casings, very difficlt to align with the precision required and very easy to nip the gasket, as I know!

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Details in my post on overhauling a temperamental windlass of a company who will do your motor...

Wet windlass woes - update

They will courier it back to you fixed if you send it to them.

 

[Sea Change]

Details in my post on overhauling a temperamental windlass of a company who will do your motor...

Wet windlass woes - update

They will courier it back to you fixed if you send it to them.

Good result. I might be able to find somewhere on my travels who can do something similar.

 

[Neeves]

Just another part of the 'failing windlass' history where components are used - not fit for purpose.

A motor encased in a mild steel casing with holes in the casing. The holes are there to allow the motor to remain cool - but let in water so the motor corroded from inside and out.

Windlass Motors should be protected, by the owner, with corrosion resistant paint, a baffle installed to keep the seawater away from the complete, motor, device. I don't know if the detail is in his website buy Vyv (Cox) encased his motor in a water resisting gunk.

I suspect its a bit late for your motors now - but next time.

Any auto mechanic capable of repairing a starter motor should be able to rejuvenate your motors. There is nothing special about windlass motors. Whether they are worth repairing - different issue. Cost of repair, cost of courier and when its repaired you still have a grotty corroding device (the corrosion of the case will continue almost unabated as you cannot seal and isolate the current corrosion).

Jonathan

 

[William_H]

Just another part of the 'failing windlass' history where components are used - not fit for purpose.

A motor encased in a mild steel casing with holes in the casing. The holes are there to allow the motor to remain cool - but let in water so the motor corroded from inside and out.

Windlass Motors should be protected, by the owner, with corrosion resistant paint, a baffle installed to keep the seawater away from the complete, motor, device. I don't know if the detail is in his website buy Vyv (Cox) encased his motor in a water resisting gunk.

I suspect its a bit late for your motors now - but next time.

Any auto mechanic capable of repairing a starter motor should be able to rejuvenate your motors. There is nothing special about windlass motors. Whether they are worth repairing - different issue. Cost of repair, cost of courier and when its repaired you still have a grotty corroding device (the corrosion of the case will continue almost unabated as you cannot seal and isolate the current corrosion).

Jonathan

Mild steel casing will be part of the magnetic circuit for field coil inside or permanent magnet.
Probably OP motor does not have a permanent magnet but if it does be wary of removing the armature as the loss of magnetic path can cause permanet magnet top diminish in strength. ol'will

 

[ducked]

Having had hard-to-source plastic components disintegrate after applying electrical contact cleaner, I am reluctant to use it ever again unless I could be sure it can only get on metal bits.

 

[Neeves]

Mild steel casing will be part of the magnetic circuit for field coil inside or permanent magnet.
Probably OP motor does not have a permanent magnet but if it does be wary of removing the armature as the loss of magnetic path can cause permanet magnet top diminish in strength. ol'will

That would explain why the casing is not made from a robust plastic though does not explain why the casing is not better protected from the environment in which it will be used. Powder coating is hardly expensive.

Jonathan

 

[dansaskip]

I might be talking out of my hat here but are you sure that the brushes are behind those crossheads caps you mention?
The brushes are normally visible after you take off the end casing and I believe are just held in by clips. Forgive me if I am wrong Are you sure you are not trying to undo those big crosshead that hold the windings to the case?
Here is a shot of a Lofrans Tigres motor with someone attending to the brushes their fingers are by the brushes s and the screwdriver is under the brush wires.

 

[Sea Change]

I might be talking out of my hat here but are you sure that the brushes are behind those crossheads caps you mention?
The brushes are normally visible after you take off the end casing and I believe are just held in by clips. Forgive me if I am wrong Are you sure you are not trying to undo those big crosshead that hold the windings to the case?
Here is a shot of a Lofrans Tigres motor with someone attending to the brushes their fingers are by the brushes s and the screwdriver is under the brush wires.View attachment 190689

Oh! Well that changes everything!! Thank you. That's what I get for making assumptions.

 

[William_H]

Good one densaskip. You picked OP's problem. ol'will

 

[PaulRainbow]

Oh! Well that changes everything!! Thank you. That's what I get for making assumptions.

Sorry, missed this thread.

Danaskip is correct, although that doesn't look like a Tigres motor, unless it's had the mounting plate removed. Be careful lifting the springs that push the brushes against the armature, if you let them go with the brushes out they are a pain to get hold of. Having to tap the windlass to get it going is a reasonably sure sign that the brushes are sticking, not uncommon with these windlasses. A good clean of the holders and brushes usually gets them working again.

 

[dansaskip]

although that doesn't look like a Tigres motor,

It is a screen shot from a YouTube video of someone fixing a Lofrans Tigres windlass

 

[Sea Change]

It looks identical to my motors.
Kind of glad I didn't get the big cross head screws to move now .
I've got the old motor in and working just now, but I remember it was occasionally sticking in the past. So at some point I'll clean up the one I just took off and have it ready to swap over.

Glad I didn't end up tearing the entire electrical side to pieces with new crimps etc.

 

[PaulRainbow]

It is a screen shot from a YouTube video of someone fixing a Lofrans Tigres windlass

"doesn't look like a Tigres motor, unless it's had the mounting plate removed" Looked at the video, the mounting plate has been left on the windlass

 

[rogerthebodger]

"doesn't look like a Tigres motor, unless it's had the mounting plate removed" Looked at the video, the mounting plate has been left on the windlass

That motor is exactly the same as my tigress winless as I had to replace the motor as the motor was missing.

The mounting plate is left on the base by removing the long screws leaving the armature in place.

I would have left the long screws out until I had set the brushes in place so the body of the motor can be rotated to make setting the lower brushes in place then rotating the body into the correct place then fitting the long screws.

As said removing the mounting plate would allow the GB oil to drain out as the mounting plate has the front bearing and oil seal fitted

 

[PaulRainbow]

That motor is exactly the same as my tigress winless as I had to replace the motor as the motor was missing.

The mounting plate is left on the base by removing the long screws leaving the armature in place.

I would have left the long screws out until I had set the brushes in place so the body of the motor can be rotated to make setting the lower brushes in place then rotating the body into the correct place then fitting the long screws.

That's a good point.