Classic GRP Yachts; this is mine, where is yours?

[oldharry]

Quite right. Tinker Liz, sail No 17 out of about 200, lives on, still in excellent shape and giving her present owner as much fun as she gave Des! We (Trident Owners Association), know of around 150 of these fine little boats still in commission or being restored. But if value is a definition of 'classic' then they are not classics, as a good one changes hands around £3.5k - £5k, while one needing TLC can be picked up off ebay for next to nothing. A near derelict one changed hands for just 50p a few years back! We owners would say otherwise: classic in appearance and handling - and what else matters?

The late Mark Solentclown's last sea trip was delivering his Trident Bambola to it's new owner in Newhaven just a week before he died - a trip he said took him "well outside my comfort zone!" He was going to write it up for our Newsletter.

More on Tridents here: https://trident24.com

 

[sjdtuk]

Here's mine.

 

[Tranona]

Have to be honest. I think all his most beautiful designs were from the wooden era. If you fast forward 10 or 20 years in the same length he drew the leisure 26 and oyster 26 neither of which catch the eye. Whereas in wood he drew yachts like this: http://www.sandemanyachtcompany.co.uk/yacht/373/MABEL

Give me her over all the oysters he had a hand in any day.

I was thinking more of boats like the UFO which could not be more different from your twister.

There is an interplay in this period between the development of racing rules, particularly IOR and methods of construction. GRP allowed designers the scope to use different shapes and treat keels and rudders as foils in a way that was simply not practical with traditional wood.

Remember the GRP built wooden designs lasted barely more than 10 years as a major force in the market because designers, builders and buyers quickly saw the advantages of GRP and while some elegance was lost in the process there are many well proportioned, good looking designs that owe little to their wooden forebears.

 

[Kukri]

Tranona writes:

“There is an interplay in this period between the development of racing rules, particularly IOR and methods of construction. GRP allowed designers the scope to use different shapes and treat keels and rudders as foils in a way that was simply not practical with traditional wood.”

I respectfully beg to differ:

There is nothing new about deep short fin keels, shallow canoe bodies and separate deep rudders with no skeg:





BONA FIDE, Charles Sibbick, 1899, now owned I think by Doug Peterson.

Conventional plank on frame construction “but carefully”!

 

[chriss999]

I'd go further and say that Bermudan rig is basically a "fail" when it comes to elegance. And not the best sail for the many modern yachtsmen who don't like sailing to windward and prefer to put the engine on.

Conor O'Brien concluded that for many yachtsmen, the best rig would be a square sail capable of being handled from the deck, with a powerful engine for going to windward and entering/leaving harbour.

In that case he seems to have been describing the modern junk rigger.
As Joshua slocum said, the most convenient rig he had encountered.

 

[chewi]

View attachment 74038
This was mine,

Javlin30,​

in the summer in front of the house with Gruinard Beach behind.
Sadly Khamsin is now ashore in Ullapool until April 2109.
All our boats are special to each of us, but I consider myself to be more fortunate than others

A 90 year layup is a bit extreme!

 

[Robert Wilson]

A 90 year layup is a bit extreme!

OHHHH GAWD !!!



A virtual bottle of bubbly to the bright-eyed one!

 

[Tranona]

Tranona writes:

“There is an interplay in this period between the development of racing rules, particularly IOR and methods of construction. GRP allowed designers the scope to use different shapes and treat keels and rudders as foils in a way that was simply not practical with traditional wood.”

I respectfully beg to differ:

You can always find exception. However the 1899 "experiment" was no more than that. It failed to catch on. The flat bottomed boats built out of traditional wood were ephemeral - never intended, or capable of lasting more than a couple of years, nor for the sort of use we would expect from a boat these days.

You can't get away from the fact that in the 1960s almost all cruising boats (and racing) being built were traditional long keel using wood as the primary construction material. By the 1980s almost none of that type were being built, although a few lingered on using GRP hulls.

It may also be the case that a large proportion of boats built in the 50s and 60s are now no longer with us because of the inability of the materials to cope with neglect.

I write as an owner of a boat from that period that is still usable, but not used because of the superior nature of modern GRP boats. Not so nice to look at maybe but much more practical.

Guess those that own GRP copies of older designs have got the best of both worlds except they forgo the benefits of designs that use GRPfor more than just reducing maintenance and improving durability.

 

[RivalRedwing]

Unless I missed it.... there is not one mention of a Co32.... amazing on a thread of this length

I am voting for the Rival 34 (with a bias ;-))

 

[Robert Wilson]

Yes the Co32 is a fine boat, I always admired them in my Cornwall days in the 70s & 80s
In fact there is one just up the Bay from my mooring. Same colour, virtually the same shape and goes out in similar conditions to those in which I do.

So, many folk think mine is a Co32 and his is a Javelin30.
Lucky him to be thought of that way...………

 

[doug748]

There is nothing new about deep short fin keels, shallow canoe bodies and separate deep rudders with no skeg:





BONA FIDE, Charles Sibbick, 1899, now owned I think by Doug Peterson.

Conventional plank on frame construction “but carefully”!

Lovely boat, coming up to 120 years old. Such a shame that it could never be made in wood.
Even if some experimenter managed it, it would fall apart in no time.

Tranona always likes to try and astound people by pulling a top hat out of a rabbit. The resultant mess on his hands never seems to discourage him.

 

[Tranona]

Lovely boat, coming up to 120 years old. Such a shame that it could never be made in wood.
Even if some experimenter managed it, it would fall apart in no time.

Tranona always likes to try and astound people by pulling a top hat out of a rabbit. The resultant mess on his hands never seems to discourage him.

If you bothered to check it did fall apart and the current boat that exists under that name was built in 2003 although the hull incorporates 5% of the original fabric from 1900.

As I said you can always find exceptions and if it really was such a success why did virtually nobody else build boats like it for another 60 years.

As I said you can always find exceptions but that does not "prove" the basic proposition wrong. The point I was making was that the shape of boats changed dramatically in a short 10 year period following the introduction of GRP as a building material.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

If you bothered to check it did fall apart and the current boat that exists under that name was built in 2003 although the hull incorporates 5% of the original fabric from 1900.

As I said you can always find exceptions and if it really was such a success why did virtually nobody else build boats like it for another 60 years.

As I said you can always find exceptions but that does not "prove" the basic proposition wrong. The point I was making was that the shape of boats changed dramatically in a short 10 year period following the introduction of GRP as a building material.

I think that some might say that mainstream designer's acceptance of 'separate' foils at the same time as grp became widespread was just coincidence.

 

[Shuggy]

If you're going to have an ensign on a pole, surely the pole needs to be either vertical or aligned with the transom?
Otherwise, one of my favourites!

I should also mention that her very amateur skipper left her anchored unattended off the Colonsay ferry pier 3 years ago and she may have kissed the main supports with her stern during a 180 degree wind shift. Her ensign staff may have been bent... possibly snapped. The mounting may have been wrecked. But I couldn't possibly confirm!

 

[escapism]

Would it be true to say that classic GRP yachts were the products of classic designers rather than the yards that produced them? I've yet to see a Holman&Pye yacht that looked wrong or had vices, similarly Peter Brett, Dick Carter, Pelle Petersen, and I'm sure lots of others of whom I have no experience. They worked to the rules and fashions of their time, but their boats still make good cruisers. Yards or designers?

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Would it be true to say that classic GRP yachts were the products of classic designers rather than the yards that produced them? I've yet to see a Holman&Pye yacht that looked wrong or had vices, similarly Peter Brett, Dick Carter, Pelle Petersen, and I'm sure lots of others of whom I have no experience. They worked to the rules and fashions of their time, but their boats still make good cruisers. Yards or designers?

Good point; the Yard must have the skill to produce the specification set by the designer at an economic level to ensure profit for the business; quality standards, productivity turnover, manufacturing techniques and consistency are all important.

I am still surprised that no one has mensioned the Moodys and Westerlys and others. Some desingers like Angus Primrose, revolutionised yacht desings and their desings are still "fresh and ut to date; for me, this is rare skill and these yachts are "classic".

 

[doug748]

Unless I missed it.... there is not one mention of a Co32.... amazing on a thread of this length

I am voting for the Rival 34 (with a bias ;-))

A rather poor photo in post 29, here is a better snap:

An easy "whereisit" for south coast sailors?

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

A rather poor photo in post 29, here is a better snap:

An easy "whereisit" for south coast sailors?

This is a very nice boat.

 

[sailorman]

Unique looks

I was one of a 3 man team who fitted out the first one

 

[STATUE]

This is my Atlantic crossing FRANCES 26 - enjoy. - http://www.ybw.com/boats-for-sale/6827437?currency=