Classic GRP Yachts; this is mine, where is yours?

[Wansworth]

Exactly. Almost all the boats featured here are pastiches of wooden boats which generally looked that way because of the characteristics of wood as a boat building material.

If "classic" is being linked to a material (GRP) then perhaps it should feature boats that could not have been built in traditional wood, so are a classic use of GRP.

I will kick off with a Sadler Barracuda - the very antithesis of most of the boats so far. I know the first was built of wood composite but its concept and shape were not determined by traditional wood.

The French understood GRP and design

 

[lw395]

....the ensign ought to be bigger ,just grazing the waterline.......IMVHO!

That's naff.

 

[lw395]

Exactly. Almost all the boats featured here are pastiches of wooden boats which generally looked that way because of the characteristics of wood as a boat building material.

If "classic" is being linked to a material (GRP) then perhaps it should feature boats that could not have been built in traditional wood, so are a classic use of GRP.

I will kick off with a Sadler Barracuda - the very antithesis of most of the boats so far. I know the first was built of wood composite but its concept and shape were not determined by traditional wood.

Are there any GRP yachts around which couldn't have been built in wood?
It's funny how in the world of dinghies, a lot of people spent a lot of effort in the 60s and 70s trying to make plywood boats as close as possible to the round bilge shapes you can make from cold moulding or GRP. Now the most modern boats are all FRP, but are tending towards hard chine shapes (apart from a very sharp bow) which could easily be built in plywood.

What dictates a lot of the shapes on show here is a legacy of rating rules, which have forced the cultural ideas of what a 'fast' yacht should look like. A culture of describing a yacht's size by its LWL rather than the amount of marina it takes up or its dead weight.

Could someone have built a modern plumb-bow, fat-arse AWB shape in carvel before the war? I don't see why not. You'd need some internal structure to bolt the keel to, but that's only a logical step from an iron-plated dinghy. Maybe it wouldn't have worked with the rigs available? Maybe it would just have been thought fugly.

So maybe it's all about some people wanting conservative styling , and few people around who would take bold steps? That hasn't really changed much ?

 

[john_q]

Lady Anne our 1970 Beaty 31 based on a Hinkley 31, a Sparkman and Stevens design from 1935

 

[Shuggy]

I’ll have my man look into it ;-)

If you're going to have an ensign on a pole, surely the pole needs to be either vertical or aligned with the transom?
Otherwise, one of my favourites!

 

[Tranona]

My little twister.
She's getting a full set of fancy B&G instruments fitted this winter so her classic stowe towed log and seafarer flashing spinning depth sounder are available to anyone who wants period gear.
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That is a classic example of a wooden boat built in GRP. Its shape was determined largely by what you could build in wood.

Fast forward a few years and then see what the same designer drew once he did not have the constraint of wood construction.

 

[Tranona]

Are there any GRP yachts around which couldn't have been built in wood?
It's funny how in the world of dinghies, a lot of people spent a lot of effort in the 60s and 70s trying to make plywood boats as close as possible to the round bilge shapes you can make from cold moulding or GRP. Now the most modern boats are all FRP, but are tending towards hard chine shapes (apart from a very sharp bow) which could easily be built in plywood.

What dictates a lot of the shapes on show here is a legacy of rating rules, which have forced the cultural ideas of what a 'fast' yacht should look like. A culture of describing a yacht's size by its LWL rather than the amount of marina it takes up or its dead weight.

Could someone have built a modern plumb-bow, fat-arse AWB shape in carvel before the war? I don't see why not. You'd need some internal structure to bolt the keel to, but that's only a logical step from an iron-plated dinghy. Maybe it wouldn't have worked with the rigs available? Maybe it would just have been thought fugly.

So maybe it's all about some people wanting conservative styling , and few people around who would take bold steps? That hasn't really changed much ?

You have answered your own question. PLywood and cold moulding removed many of the constraints of "tree" wood and none of the pastiche wooden boats here (like the Twister) were built in plywood.

You could not build an AWB with plank on frame construction and modern hull shapes only came about because of the characteristics of GRP and other composites including wood/epoxy.

Apart from my suggestion nobody has proposed a classic GRP boat that does not have its roots in plank on frame except perhaps some of the transition fin and skeg boats of the 70's.

 

[Poignard]

Apart from my suggestion nobody has proposed a classic GRP boat that does not have its roots in plank on frame except perhaps some of the transition fin and skeg boats of the 70's.

Can you suggest any for us to admire?

 

[CoVianna]

This is mine. I like to think she has a classic look to her.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Tranona; Apart from my suggestion nobody has proposed a classic GRP boat that does not have its roots in plank on frame except perhaps some of the transition fin and skeg boats of the 70's.[/QUOTE]

We need to consider some of the Westerlys and Moodys of the late 70's and early 80's; for example, Westerly Discus and Moody 33, both of which have deviated from the constraints of the timber design

 

[lw395]

You could not build an AWB with plank on frame construction and modern hull shapes only came about because of the characteristics of GRP and other composites including wood/epoxy.

I think you could.
If you look away from the Uk, there are some pre-war hull shapes built in carvel which are very flat bottomed. Often centreboarders. You'd have to have a structure a bit like a centreboard case to take the loads from a metal fin keel into the hull.
It's just that nobody made the leap to make an overgrown National 14 with a bulb keel.
https://sailcraftblog.wordpress.com...ting-uffa-fox-avenger-and-the-planing-dinghy/

What people label as a 'classic yacht' shape is not the best that could be done with wood, it is a style which sold yachts in the 50s and continues to attract buyers now. That's all.

Of course if you'd built something like a carvel Ker 32 in 1950, it would have been absolutely spanked by the rating rules of the time. And the weight of a wooden mast would probably have made it a dog in choppy water.
In the 60s, people did not know so much about what shapes were intrinsically fast through the water. What they did know was shaped by the top designers looking for the best performance under the metre rules and what-have-you. All those long overhangs may look pretty, but if we'd had CHS/IRC in 1950, they'd never have evolved that way. The craftsmen could have built different hull shapes. If wood could not have delivered what the designers wanted, then more boats would have been built in other materials. There was a lot of non-wood content in some pre-war boats, particularly in the US. Metal frames.

But also, 'classic era' yachts were designed to race across oceans, or at least offshore in a gale. When the shape of an AWB no longer looks so optimal?

But if all we cared about was efficiency, we'd be sailing trimarans anyway.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

That is a classic example of a wooden boat built in GRP. Its shape was determined largely by what you could build in wood.

Fast forward a few years and then see what the same designer drew once he did not have the constraint of wood construction.

Have to be honest. I think all his most beautiful designs were from the wooden era. If you fast forward 10 or 20 years in the same length he drew the leisure 26 and oyster 26 neither of which catch the eye. Whereas in wood he drew yachts like this: http://www.sandemanyachtcompany.co.uk/yacht/373/MABEL

Give me her over all the oysters he had a hand in any day.

 

[lw395]

Have to be honest. I think all his most beautiful designs were from the wooden era. If you fast forward 10 or 20 years in the same length he drew the leisure 26 and oyster 26 neither of which catch the eye. Whereas in wood he drew yachts like this: http://www.sandemanyachtcompany.co.uk/yacht/373/MABEL

Give me her over all the oysters he had a hand in any day.

When it comes to elegance, masthead rig is basically a 'fail'.

 

[Poignard]

When it comes to elegance, masthead rig is basically a 'fail'.

I'd go further and say that Bermudan rig is basically a "fail" when it comes to elegance. And not the best sail for the many modern yachtsmen who don't like sailing to windward and prefer to put the engine on.

Conor O'Brien concluded that for many yachtsmen, the best rig would be a square sail capable of being handled from the deck, with a powerful engine for going to windward and entering/leaving harbour.

 

[Topcat47]

Tranona; Apart from my suggestion nobody has proposed a classic GRP boat that does not have its roots in plank on frame except perhaps some of the transition fin and skeg boats of the 70's.

The Fairey boats were constructed from wood laminates and had shapes that differed widely from traditional plank on frame wooden construction methods.

 

[Kukri]

There is nothing new about deep short fin keels, shallow canoe bodies and separate deep rudders with no skeg:





BONA FIDE, Charles Sibbick, 1899, now owned I think by Doug Peterson.

Conventional plank on frame construction “but carefully”!

 

[BabaYaga]

Your Vindo is perhaps not typical of Swedish boats of the time, but composite boats in the same general style were common in Germany until quite recently, and may still be made as far as I know by small builders on the Schlei.

Yes, obviously there is still a niche market for new built yachts of this type (which sort of delights me):
http://www.scalaryachts.com/cms/en/scalar-yachts/start

 

[Kukri]

The Fairey boats were constructed from wood laminates and had shapes that differed widely from traditional plank on frame wooden construction methods.

Depends a lot on your Fairey boat.

This is one:



This isn’t one:

 

[oldharry]

Here's my Trident 24, launched 1972, but the 1st one launched 1960, and still going strong. I saw one at the LBS in 1963, and decided to buy one. I finally did in 2007, but this is the only boat I have owned for more than 5 years before the shortcomings overcame the good points! Now after 11 years, still happy: not the biggest, not the most comfortable below, but a brilliant sailer: No1 won ALL her club races about 4 years ago. Says something for a 50's designed boat!

 

[Kukri]

Here's my Trident 24, launched 1972, but the 1st one launched 1960, and still going strong. I saw one at the LBS in 1963, and decided to buy one. I finally did in 2007, but this is the only boat I have owned for more than 5 years before the shortcomings overcame the good points! Now after 11 years, still happy: not the biggest, not the most comfortable below, but a brilliant sailer: No1 won ALL her club races about 4 years ago. Says something for a 50's designed boat!

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If I recall correctly, JD Sleightholme when Editor of “Yachting Monthly “ owned a Trident 24 Named “Tinker Liz”, which he kept on a mooring at Woolverstone. They are lovely boats.