Spyro
Well-known member
Just seen an ad on TV. Anyone used it anywhere on the boat. Looks like a miracle solution especially all those oxygen bubbles. Can I get rid of all my expensive cleaners now? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Cillet Bang!
- Thread starter Spyro
- Start date
Bejasus
New member
haven't used it on the boat, as it is over 40 yrs old, so a bit wary it might disappear, but around the house it is v.good.
A
Anonymous
Guest
...but around the house it is v.good.
If you have some, could you check the container and see what's said to be in it?
If you have some, could you check the container and see what's said to be in it?
philmarks
Member
Have used for removing rust streaks on Toplac (paint) and Interdeck (paint). I shall be using it again. Read instructions it is agressive, acid.
VicS
Well-known member
At least it does what the tv ad says. It cleans dirty coins...I tried it today. Brings a whole new meaning to money laundering.
All the bottle says about ingredients is <5% non ionic surfactants.
It is not suitable for use on acid sensitive surfaces like marble, enamel, aluminium, natural stones, zinc plated metals, lime grouting, textiles, copper, linoleum, varnished, waxed or oiled wood and rubber.
I've tested it with pH paper and found that it has a pH of 1 (or less). So it is quite a strong acid.
I guess there are going to be some things its good at but a lot of precautions to take. May be good for the stain around the water line, perhaps also for removing rust stains from grp.
All the bottle says about ingredients is <5% non ionic surfactants.
It is not suitable for use on acid sensitive surfaces like marble, enamel, aluminium, natural stones, zinc plated metals, lime grouting, textiles, copper, linoleum, varnished, waxed or oiled wood and rubber.
I've tested it with pH paper and found that it has a pH of 1 (or less). So it is quite a strong acid.
I guess there are going to be some things its good at but a lot of precautions to take. May be good for the stain around the water line, perhaps also for removing rust stains from grp.
tyce
Well-known member
quote " I've tested it with pH paper and found that it has a pH of 1 (or less). So it is quite a strong acid"
are you sure you read the litmus paper correctly, if it does have a ph of 1 it is lethal and will disolve virtually anything it comes in to contact with, and the fumes will kill everything else
are you sure you read the litmus paper correctly, if it does have a ph of 1 it is lethal and will disolve virtually anything it comes in to contact with, and the fumes will kill everything else
VicS
Well-known member
Re: Acidity of Cillet Bang
Having worked as a Chemist in an engineering environment for the major part of my working life I suppose I should should know better than to rise to comments on chemistry like that made by an engineer.
However
Yes I am quite sure I read the pH paper correctly, and I never said anything about litmus paper! I used a wide range universal paper that clearly distinguishes in divisions of 1 unit from 1 to 11.
As for the statement " if it does have a pH of 1 it is lethal and will dissolve virtually anything it comes in contact with and the fumes will kill everything else"
My first reaction is RUBBISH.
If you care to do the calculation you will find that the H ion concentration at pH 1 is only 0.1 molar.
pH = -log[H]
To put this in perspective you will find that the concentration of dilute acids used as general reagents in school (and other) laboratories is probably 1 or 2 molar ie 10 or 20 times what I quote for the acid concentration in Cillit Bang.
At a concentration of 0.1 molar I can't think of any acid that will produce noticeable fumes, apart from some foul smelling organic ones, let alone fumes that will kill everything. As I don't know what acid is in Cillit Bang I can't comment any further.
Also compare with battery acid which is about 4.5 molar (or 9 molar in respect of hydrogen ion)
It should be noted, I suppose, that Cillit Bang carries an "Irritant" warning Hazchem symbol.
Apologies to other forumites but tyce's post did rather "rattle my cage"
Vic S (Member of The Royal Society of Chemistry)
Having worked as a Chemist in an engineering environment for the major part of my working life I suppose I should should know better than to rise to comments on chemistry like that made by an engineer.
However
Yes I am quite sure I read the pH paper correctly, and I never said anything about litmus paper! I used a wide range universal paper that clearly distinguishes in divisions of 1 unit from 1 to 11.
As for the statement " if it does have a pH of 1 it is lethal and will dissolve virtually anything it comes in contact with and the fumes will kill everything else"
My first reaction is RUBBISH.
If you care to do the calculation you will find that the H ion concentration at pH 1 is only 0.1 molar.
pH = -log[H]
To put this in perspective you will find that the concentration of dilute acids used as general reagents in school (and other) laboratories is probably 1 or 2 molar ie 10 or 20 times what I quote for the acid concentration in Cillit Bang.
At a concentration of 0.1 molar I can't think of any acid that will produce noticeable fumes, apart from some foul smelling organic ones, let alone fumes that will kill everything. As I don't know what acid is in Cillit Bang I can't comment any further.
Also compare with battery acid which is about 4.5 molar (or 9 molar in respect of hydrogen ion)
It should be noted, I suppose, that Cillit Bang carries an "Irritant" warning Hazchem symbol.
Apologies to other forumites but tyce's post did rather "rattle my cage"
Vic S (Member of The Royal Society of Chemistry)
chippie
New member
Re: Acidity of Cillet Bang
How dare he get it wrong!
How dare he get it wrong!
BrendanS
Well-known member
Re: Acidity of Cillet Bang
I was waiting for your response, and had to restrain myself from warning him
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I was waiting for your response, and had to restrain myself from warning him
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
sailorman
Well-known member
Re: Acidity of Cillet Bang
[ If you care to do the calculation you will find that the H ion concentration at pH 1 is only 0.1 molar /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif ]
any good for tobacco stained teeth then ???? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
[ If you care to do the calculation you will find that the H ion concentration at pH 1 is only 0.1 molar /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif ]
any good for tobacco stained teeth then ???? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
LittleShip
New member
Re: Acidity of Cillet Bang
"" I should should know better than to rise to comments on chemistry like that [red]made by an engineer[/red].""
Hmmmmm !
"" I should should know better than to rise to comments on chemistry like that [red]made by an engineer[/red].""
Hmmmmm !
mcgarry1
N/A
Re: Acidity of Cillet Bang
and sorry, schools use 0.6 molar (well mine did)
and sorry, schools use 0.6 molar (well mine did)
BrendanS
Well-known member
Re: Acidity of Cillet Bang
You're probably quite young then. Schools used to have much stronger acids and interesting things to play (errr, experiment? that doesn't read well either, but you know what I mean) with in my day.
Dropping sodium in oil down the waste pipes used to be quite a hoot too!
You're probably quite young then. Schools used to have much stronger acids and interesting things to play (errr, experiment? that doesn't read well either, but you know what I mean) with in my day.
Dropping sodium in oil down the waste pipes used to be quite a hoot too!
VicS
Well-known member
Re: Acids in schools
I can spout about this too as I worked in a local boy's grammar school for several years after taking early retirement.
We used 2 molar hydrochloric and nitric acids as "bench reagents" but 1 molar sulphuric acid so that in terms of "acidity" it was the same as the others. in fact before I reduced it the sulphuric was 2M as well.
We did, however, often provide lower concentrations when we felt it appropriate, especially for the younger boys. It saved money as well of course.
Dropping sodium down the waste pipes indead Brendan. Not if I'd been the Lab Tech you wouldn't have!
Reminds me though of the time my boss some years earlier decided we should get rid of a largish quantity of sodium. "How do you suggest doing that?" I asked. "Take it out onto the jetty and chuck it into the river" (Thames estuary)!
"You can if you like but count me out on that one" So off he went with the jar of sodium. When he came back he still had it all bar one piece (These were chunks about 1/2 inch cube). Apparently the first piece had jumped out of the water back on to the jetty with him! Junior staff much amused.
Re your slightly earlier post at 21:25. Glad I didn't disappoint.
BTW
the pH of lavatory cleaner is also about 1. I understand that lav. cleaners contain sodium hydrogen sulphate which you can regard as being equal (molar) concentrations of sodium sulphate and sulphuric acid.
BTW 2
Don't mix Cillit Bang with a chlorine bleach or you will get fumes capable of killing everything....Chlorine gas!
I can spout about this too as I worked in a local boy's grammar school for several years after taking early retirement.
We used 2 molar hydrochloric and nitric acids as "bench reagents" but 1 molar sulphuric acid so that in terms of "acidity" it was the same as the others. in fact before I reduced it the sulphuric was 2M as well.
We did, however, often provide lower concentrations when we felt it appropriate, especially for the younger boys. It saved money as well of course.
Dropping sodium down the waste pipes indead Brendan. Not if I'd been the Lab Tech you wouldn't have!
Reminds me though of the time my boss some years earlier decided we should get rid of a largish quantity of sodium. "How do you suggest doing that?" I asked. "Take it out onto the jetty and chuck it into the river" (Thames estuary)!
"You can if you like but count me out on that one" So off he went with the jar of sodium. When he came back he still had it all bar one piece (These were chunks about 1/2 inch cube). Apparently the first piece had jumped out of the water back on to the jetty with him! Junior staff much amused.
Re your slightly earlier post at 21:25. Glad I didn't disappoint.
BTW
the pH of lavatory cleaner is also about 1. I understand that lav. cleaners contain sodium hydrogen sulphate which you can regard as being equal (molar) concentrations of sodium sulphate and sulphuric acid.
BTW 2
Don't mix Cillit Bang with a chlorine bleach or you will get fumes capable of killing everything....Chlorine gas!
BrendanS
Well-known member
Re: Acids in schools
I dread to tell you what I got up to when doing PhD, with access to an unresricted catalogue (the sorts of things most people aren't allowed to order) I ended up with a 1kg tub of cyanide under the bench, that I wonder how they disposed off once I left.
This could start another thread of hurculean proportions <g>
I dread to tell you what I got up to when doing PhD, with access to an unresricted catalogue (the sorts of things most people aren't allowed to order) I ended up with a 1kg tub of cyanide under the bench, that I wonder how they disposed off once I left.
This could start another thread of hurculean proportions <g>
nealeb
New member
Re: Acids in schools
Back in my school days, we did not have any "professional" lab assistants. The senior lab assistants were a couple of 6th-formers who were paid, assisted by 3-4 more junior lads who aspired to those giddy heights (and it was a good skive to get out of assembly!). In all chemistry labs, used by 1st formers onwards (year 7 in newspeak?) there were all the standard reagents. Dilute mineral acids were 2N (pre-molar days) as well as 500ml bottles of concentrated acids. Only really dangerous things were locked away in the poisons cupboard and the only thing that I did not feel happy handling was the hydrofluoric acid. In those days, the pH paper was looked after more carefully 'cos it was expensive stuff then!
Things have changed a little - I actually did a local teacher a favour by taking some concentrated sulphuric acid off her to get it out of her school when I wanted it for pickling silver-soldered items.
To put it all into perspective, despite one or two minor accidents I did less damage to myself in all that time than my mother did to herself at home with "ordinary" bleach. That gave her a very nasty chemical burn that took ages to heal. Sounds like Cillett Bang is a usefully aggressive cleaner, which means that someone will try to ban it any time soon.
BTW, have you ever tried to dispose of 500gm of "commercial grade" sodium cyanide? I found a near-full jar in my father-in-law's workshop when I cleared it after his death. The local police station suggested that I just pour it in the nearest river...
Back in my school days, we did not have any "professional" lab assistants. The senior lab assistants were a couple of 6th-formers who were paid, assisted by 3-4 more junior lads who aspired to those giddy heights (and it was a good skive to get out of assembly!). In all chemistry labs, used by 1st formers onwards (year 7 in newspeak?) there were all the standard reagents. Dilute mineral acids were 2N (pre-molar days) as well as 500ml bottles of concentrated acids. Only really dangerous things were locked away in the poisons cupboard and the only thing that I did not feel happy handling was the hydrofluoric acid. In those days, the pH paper was looked after more carefully 'cos it was expensive stuff then!
Things have changed a little - I actually did a local teacher a favour by taking some concentrated sulphuric acid off her to get it out of her school when I wanted it for pickling silver-soldered items.
To put it all into perspective, despite one or two minor accidents I did less damage to myself in all that time than my mother did to herself at home with "ordinary" bleach. That gave her a very nasty chemical burn that took ages to heal. Sounds like Cillett Bang is a usefully aggressive cleaner, which means that someone will try to ban it any time soon.
BTW, have you ever tried to dispose of 500gm of "commercial grade" sodium cyanide? I found a near-full jar in my father-in-law's workshop when I cleared it after his death. The local police station suggested that I just pour it in the nearest river...
CharlesM
New member
Re: Acidity of Cillet Bang
lol - seems Tyce walked into that one with his eyes closed
(I am assuming that VicS is correct - he could be blagging verry well for all I know, hehe)
lol - seems Tyce walked into that one with his eyes closed
(I am assuming that VicS is correct - he could be blagging verry well for all I know, hehe)
tyce
Well-known member
Re: Acidity of Cillet Bang
well i walked into that one, i bow to your superior knowledge and apologies all round.
always nice to learn something new.
well i walked into that one, i bow to your superior knowledge and apologies all round.
always nice to learn something new.
BrendanS
Well-known member
Re: Acids in schools
[ QUOTE ]
BTW, have you ever tried to dispose of 500gm of "commercial grade" sodium cyanide? I found a near-full jar in my father-in-law's workshop when I cleared it after his death.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd try contacting one of the licensed waste disposal contractors in the yellow pages. Dumping it is illegal, as is possesion. Dumping it in a river would do huge damage
[ QUOTE ]
BTW, have you ever tried to dispose of 500gm of "commercial grade" sodium cyanide? I found a near-full jar in my father-in-law's workshop when I cleared it after his death.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd try contacting one of the licensed waste disposal contractors in the yellow pages. Dumping it is illegal, as is possesion. Dumping it in a river would do huge damage
Thistle
Well-known member
Getting rid of sodium cyanide
Yes, that's good advice and is, I would think, the proper way to go. You might, however, have to pay for the disposal. From memory, the stuff is used in the metal plating industry: are there any users near you who might be prepared to accept the stuff and handle it properly? If not, they would be well-placed to advise on its disposal.
I agree that it MUST NOT get into water courses.
Yes, that's good advice and is, I would think, the proper way to go. You might, however, have to pay for the disposal. From memory, the stuff is used in the metal plating industry: are there any users near you who might be prepared to accept the stuff and handle it properly? If not, they would be well-placed to advise on its disposal.
I agree that it MUST NOT get into water courses.
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