Change ownership/site for boat in Caribbean

[stevesales]

A bit of a challenge.
I'm about to buy a boat in the USVI, currently registered with the USCG.
I'd like to sail it over to St Martin (French but duty free) 'cos there are direct flights there daily from Paris.
Being a Brit I can't maintain US registration and will eventually want to register the boat in Nevis (of St Kitts and) where I have a company. Nevis is still getting its act together re boat registration butare so laid back I can't imagine anything happening too quickly. Does anyone know what will happen if I turn up in St Martin in a boat with proper bill of sale + USCG transfer documents ? I think they have dismantled the Guillotine there.

 

[DaveNTL]

You don't have a boat 'registered with the US Coast Guard'. Boat registration in the US is a state tax and is separate from 'documentaion' which is what the Coast Guard does.

There is nothing to prevent you from keeping the boat registered in the US - even as a Brit - they aren't fussy about this like the Brits are.

You cannot, however, document the boat with the US Coast Guard. Only US nationals can do this. Documentation is only necessary if, for example, you want to get a mortgage on the boat. You won't be able to. Others may give many other reasons what documentation does for you but as a non-US person and if you have a proper bill of sale you have no problem.

As a Brit, you can of course register the boat under our SSR online (is it £12 or £20?).

It wouldn't surprise me if some unscrupulous people keep US registration for ease of entering the States and keeping the boat there for extended periods etc, and have a UK registration too. Such things should not, however, be condoned.

 

[stevesales]

Thanks, now possibly more confused.
I thought the jolly Customs always wanted to see proof of ownership of a boat, which I took to mean some form of registration document as well as a bill of sale.
Can you explain what happens, then, when the boat ceases to be both documented by USCG and registered with whatever US state ?

 

[DaveNTL]

"which I took to mean some form of registration document as well as a bill of sale"

You will have a bill of sale and you are allowed to register it so there is no problem is there?

"what happens, then, when the boat ceases to be both documented by USCG and registered with whatever US state"

well, you don't. you register it with a State (the registration fees vary from state to state but it isn't much). Or, if you're not bothered about registering in the US because, for example, you don't want to keep it there or cruise there much, just register it as a British vessel under the small ship register here:

http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/dti/marineadmin/smallshipsregisterapplicationto1.pdf

other links regarding US registration :

Florida http://www.hsmv.state.fl.us/dmv/faqboat.html
Virginia http://www.dgif.state.va.us/boating/index.cfm

US documentation:

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/faq.htm#01

I must learn how to do those one word hyperlinks /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[stevesales]

Thanks again.
I will have a bill of sale but when I arrive in St Martin the boat will not be registered because I won't have had time to do so.
If I register in the UK are there not VAT implications?
Which one word hyperlink did you have in mind ?

 

[DaveNTL]

No, VAT is another issue again. In the UK the registration is nothing to do with tax.

You only become liable to VAT if you import it into the UK (or any other EU country) and if I understood your original post correctly, you aren't looking to do that?

Most people when they post links just say 'here' and it's highlighted in blue as a hyperlink - i can't be arsed learning how to do it so my post has an ugly long link.

Never have been good at reading instructions. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[stevesales]

ps your URL points to :-
SSR 1
Version 06/04
DEPARTMENT OF TRADE & INDUSTRY
MARINE ADMINISTRATION
The Merchant Shipping Registration Act 1991 (Part 2)
SMALL SHIPS REGISTER
APPLICATION TO REGISTER
A SMALL SHIP
and re-registration
The Small Ships Register is only open to residents of the Isle of Man.
Please complete using Manx Shipping Notice No.69 for guidance.

 

[stevesales]

I use Firefox as a web browser to keep the bogeymen out of my box, all you do with that is R click + save link as 'Hello' or whatever but GOK what the Good Gates system does.
No, I'm not coming into EU waters and registering in Florida is a good thing because they will give me a boat + radio operator's license without any hoohah
(pause for outraged screams from honest folk what 'as done a 3 day course to learn where the ON button is on thier SSB.)

 

[DaveNTL]

oops, sorry about that - i picked the wrong one out of my 'favourites', anyway, you obviously know what's involved with the relevant UK registration.

I totally agree regarding Florida registration - and the radio operators license. If you do a search on this board you will find other discussions where both registration and radio licensing come up.

We are quite happy going the US route (we are Brits too) with both registration and radio licensing because we only want to cruise there for the next few years with the odd jaunt to the Caribbean.

The only issue of course is the length of stay for us personally in the US even though the boat can stay. This is broken up for us by family commitments so it suits us fine.

If / when we ever want to come to Europe (and it's a big if - if we get more adventurous we would rather do south america / south africa / australia) then we would register under the SSR and i'd try to bring the boat in VAT free because i've been non-resident for the last 22 years /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif *waits for even more indignant rants* LOL

 

[Salty John]

If you state register the boat you will need to show you paid sales tax somewhere, or that for some reason you are exempt. You are supposed to register the boat in the state in which it will be kept.
You should write to the USCG asking them to de-document the boat, and keep a copy of the letter until you receive confirmation that the de-documentation has taken place. It is illegal for a non-US citizen to skipper a US documented boat.
The bill of sale is your most important document, it should be notarized.
If you are not going to be based in the US it seems pointless to register the boat there - put it on the SSR.

 

[DaveNTL]

yes, as js48 says

I dont know what the sales tax in the USVI is, in Florida it's 6 or 6 1/2%

In Virginia it is a straight $2000 then the registration is done as a value of the boat as a property tax - can't remember the % they apply but it isn't a lot - worked out at $35 for us

In Rhode Island sales tax is 0% !! Delware is a very low lump sum.

State sales tax people in the higher % taxed states can and do look for boats from no sales tax or low sales tax states. After you have owned the boat for more than six months this isn't an issue.

 

[Sea Devil]

It is of course very easy to have lots of different countries registration for your boat and the cost of getting ssr is tiny - The caribbean islands do like to 'have the apparent correct paper work'! If you get the SSR papers for your boat in the USVI and use those papers to enter St Marten or St Martin they will match your passports. Problem solved - you do not need to give up any of the other registrations of course.

 

[DaveNTL]

blimey michael you're so direct!

i only gave a crude hint at that /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Sea Devil]

The UK 'boating' rules in the uk re registration and radio operations licence are so silly and out of touch with a world where boats and people actually voyage in increasing numbers - There is such an attitude that the world revolves round the British Empire - well Great Britain - I like my country but really......

When I was in the states with Bambola there was something like a 12 month or 18 month 'importation limit' on how long I could keep her there without paying .... some tax or other? Not very strictly enforced but those CC cutters do come around sometimes..
What is the rule now?

Also I remember getting a 'boaty' visa in my passport in Trini for entry to the USA with a boat....(I had a business multi entry indefinate stay visa but that was not enough)
Since Sept 11th has that changed?

 

[stevesales]

Thanks gents for a useful discussion and helpful responses.
Sadly I agree re the comments on the UK.
I love England dearly, one can never really renounce one's birthplace, but I couldn't live there.
One advantage of living in alternate societies as opposed to visiting them for a holiday is that you see them in the rain rather than through a (usually) alcohol induced mist. Each has its own good points but, sadly, I've yet to find anywhere that has nothing but good. One's own boat can possibly acheive this but as soon as you get near civilisation some halfwit either boards it or forces you to do some ridiculous posturing to comply with stupid and unneccesary regulations. Look at regs for the EEC now. Do these affect the baddies? Not at all. Do they allow the State to interfere more with individual's privacy for dubious reasons? Of course.
Well done MP if you've avoided contributing taxes to support the likes of Blur the Barmy for 22 years. Perhaps a YBW forum specifically devoted to all known forms of BRTBA (boat related tax and bureaucracy avoidance)? It would need encryption though...

 

[Salty John]

Unfortunately, even before 9/11, all indefinite multiple reentry visas were cancelled and the visa waver scheme introduced. Under that scheme you enter the US for up to 90 days without a visa, but you have no option but to leave at the end of the period. If your boat is in the US then you can use this scheme to do your boating in the USA (in 90-day visits) but live in the UK. However, you cannot enter the USA by boat under the visa waiver scheme, so you must apply for a visa outside the USA if you have taken your boat to, say, the Bahamas. I know many people who do cruise the Bahamas, returning to the US "illegally" but I think we are all aware of how seriously the US takes illegal immigration and I would not risk it myself.
If you use the visa waiver scheme to visit your state registered boat you have to be sure you leave at the due time - failure to do so will result in a 10 year ban on entering the US again.

 

[Sea Devil]

I remember getting a visa in my passport in Trini before going to Key West to enter. I was told then that you had to have a 'this special visa' cannot remember the name - in order to enter US with a boat.....
So what is the situation now if you sail in? What visa
Can a non US citizen have 'state registration of the boat' in order to keep his boat in the US without a side trip to the Bahamas every so often?

 

[Salty John]

I also don't know what the visa type is now, but you can't sail in without one.
State registration is open to any boat as long as it is legally imported into, or built in, the USA.

 

[Sea Devil]

State Registration - is that availble to boats owned by non US Citizens?

 

[Salty John]

Yes, your nationality has nothing to do with state registration. You pay the registration fee in the state in which the boat is kept. If your boat is resident in the USA, even if you are not, you MUST register it with the appropriate dept. in the state in which the boat will be kept. Of course the boat must have been legally imported, duty paid, or it must have been purchased in the US - this is not a way of getting around the cruising permit requirement!