CE mark - very dull unless you are thinking of buying in the USA

Sea Devil

Sea Devil

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I know this has been 'discussed' before but I am not too clear about a few aspects of it...

So you buy a boat for around £60-80,000 in the USA and register it on the Small Ships Register... sail it around a few places and then eventually enter European and specifically UK waters..
At this point you pay whatever VAT the C&E decide they will charge you.
Now:-
the boat is an American design built after 1998 and has never visited UK waters..
You intend to keep it and if selling it would take it out of EU waters ...

As I understand it I am now required under pain of imprisonment to get it CE marked??? Is that right?

If I am obliged to get it CE marked can I opt for the simplest marking - D - like narrow boats have so it is registered for use in no waves?
If I opt for D and then choose to use it on the oceans am I breaking a law? Is the marking obligatory but the use of boats of any marking up to the skipper?

If I am obliged to CE mark the boat 'properly' for ocean use and I employ one of the companies who advertise doing this work does anybody know what they are going to charge me - roughly...

Has anybody on the forum actually gone through the process? If so how was it and what did it cost?

Sorry this is so lengthy...
 
Are you thinking more of the RCD status (A, B, C & D) - if so - I think that only applies if selling within the UK (and Europe?)
 
Michael

Give me a ring on the contact details found after clicking on my signature.

(Just need to check a few details before posting on an open forum)

John /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Some useful information here. Interestingly, it seems to imply the RCD only covers new craft:

[ QUOTE ]
The RCD only covers any craft when first placed on the market. It does not apply to any subsequent placing on the market.

Put simply the RCD applies when the craft are 'new'. It does not apply to used craft but the requirements of the GPSD do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not at all clear, is it? But then we can't expect anything more from the bureaucratic nightmare that is the EU and its protectionist legislation can we?

Rick
 
[ QUOTE ]
There is no exemption for importing and using a used boat from outside the EEA for private/personal use.



[/ QUOTE ] thanks for the link.. I have been to quite a few web sites - many of which want me to employ them to do the work for me... I am just trying to find out the 'reality' of the situation... the above quote from your link makes me feel that there is no way out (except maybe registering as a D and then using it on the sea!)
 
One of the mags reported on this about a year back, virtually similar situation as I recall. Bloke bought a tried and tested US design over there and sailed it back here, then some tie-wearer said it wasn't seaworthy coz it hadn't got an RCD. He protested that he'd just sailed the damn thing across the North Atlantic, which didn't seem to be acceptable proof of seaworthiness compared to several bits of paper. So he enquired about obtaining the requisite bits of bumph, found it would cost him half as much as the boat, said sod it and declared it was a bath toy, or something similar.

I paraphrase a little, but maybe someone with hoarding instincts could point you towards the actual article.

Should you think this all smacks of protectionism by the Euro boat building industry, who am I to disagree with you?
 
Hi Michael. I have actually bought and imported a boat in the states, and have been through this. The regulation is as follows:

The RCD regulations apply to any boat, regardless of age or year of construction, offered to the market within the EU after July 1998.

To translate this, if you sail your boat from the US, and then want to sell it in the EU it must be CE marked. If you just visit, then there is no requirement for a CE mark to use the boat in EU waters.

However, if the boat is resident in the EU (i.e. registered to a state in the EU, or to someone who is a resident of an EU state) then, regardless of if you intend to sell the boat or not, it should be CE marked.

In reality, how does it affect you. Accepting that you don't want to sell the boat, you are covered there. I assume you are for the moment resident in the EU somewhere. So technically if you own the boat, it should be CE compliant. However, the chances of anyone stopping you etc etc are almost non-existant. The CE regulation would only really come into effect if the boat was involved in an where serious injury or could be attributed to the boat not being CE compliant, and resident (not visiting) the EU. The importer (you) would then be liable for litigation by the injured party. Accepting you are not going to use the vessel commercially, then it is likely that it would be you or your family that was injured. Even in the USA you can't sue yourself, so the only risk is your next of kin.

In short, if you don't want to sell, you don't really have a problem. Technically, you should have it CE marked to comply with the regulation, but this is not a law and the only penalty, as already explained, is public litigation after the fact of an .

If it is a foreign (outside EU) registered yacht with a non-EU resident there is no requirement for the RCD at all. .

Hope this helps.
 
"In short, if you don't want to sell, you don't really have a problem. Technically, you should have it CE marked to comply with the regulation, but this is not a law and the only penalty, as already explained, is public litigation after the fact of an ."

Not the ony penalty I'm afraid.
For an offence under the RCD, the person responsible for first placing the craft on the market or taking it into service the maximum penalty for breaching the RCD is 3 months imprisonment or a £5000 fine. This applies equally to private individuals and those in business. Although a prosecution must be brought with one year from the date of the offence there are other processes which can be invoked on the discovery of a non-compliant or falsely CE marked craft.

I have looked a bit further into this for Michael and it seems that some member states are now restricting use as well !! I.e no going offshore in a cat D boat. RYA have a good download in the members area.
 
It cracks me up that the DTI say the purpose of the legislation is

[ QUOTE ]
To remove barriers to trade and ensure open means of access by Member States to Community markets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whereas in reality its purely an exercise in closing the markets particularly to second hand craft made abroad.

As to the case in hand, if you can proove the craft visited one of the Eu Overseas territories (such as some of the Caribbean islands) before 1986, you may have a get out clause.

We should get out of Europe - this is getting out of hand.

Rick
 
[ QUOTE ]


We should get out of Europe - this is getting out of hand.

Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Did you in fact get a CE plate for the boat? If so what did it cost? Was it easy?

l ask because as a French resident flying a UK flag the local customs guys will still inspect me at some time.. there is a customs training school close by and they will do it by the book..

Now the requirement to have the appropriate CE is now enshrined into French National law not only me but any EU vessel, entering French or Italian waters, must conform or be liable to the penalties stated..

It is beginning to look as if the only way is to 'obey' the new rules - so I was wondering if anybody know roughly what it costs to conform?
 
Hi Michael,

Yep, went through the whole process, though it was with a Mobo, but I suppose the principle is the same. I comission a marine engineer who actually does CE certification for new builds.

The process is a Technical Construction File (TCF) has to be produced for the boat - it is basically treated as a one off build. This file checks variuos aspects of the boast construction and accessories such as fuel lines/tanks, fire extinguishers etc etc.

A stability test (same as for MCA coding) and a handling test must also be carried out. The handling test basically involved running the boat at WOT and ensuring she would make a 90 degree turn within 7 boat lengths.

We were able to reference many of the US standards and confirm that they were equal or better than the equivalent EU standard and therefor the engineer signed them off.

Once the TCF was written and the tests done, a new HIN is created (I used the same as the factory for this, inserting a GB where the orifinal US was) and a CE plate made showing catagory (A,B,C,D) and number of persons, weight etc etc.

As the importer, you have to sign the certificate of conformity declaring that the TCF is accurate and that you have instructed the appropriate engineer to carry out the test. Once this is done, he then also signs the Certificate and roberts you fathers brother, your boat is CE marked.

As to cost, I had my boat done in 2004, but at the time it cost me £800 for a 26' boat. I don't think length is a big factor, cos the time spent on it will always be the same. I would expect it to cost no more than £1500, and that allows for changing fuel lines and fitting engine room extinguiahers that are CE marked.
 
I guess one big question is whether or not an older engine could meet the emissions requirements that came into force in 2006. I thought that various engine makers had to bring in new designs to comply - so surely their older ones could not be modified.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I guess one big question is whether or not an older engine could meet the emissions requirements that came into force in 2006. I thought that various engine makers had to bring in new designs to comply - so surely their older ones could not be modified.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I asked CE Proof and Lancing marine this question, the confirmed that the older engins such as Perkins, Lehmann's etc could not be brought up to spec but due to the wet exhausts could not be tested either, except by being removed and sent to a lab for testing. Yeah right, can you see all these hundreds of old boats removing their engines for testing or even for renewal on the say so of this piece of crap legislation. They will be wanting all boats over 10yrs old scrapped next. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
This is the main reason I registered the boat in the US under the wife's name as owner and she is a US citizen.
 
[ QUOTE ]
This is the main reason I registered the boat in the US under the wife's name as owner and she is a US citizen.

[/ QUOTE ]

But where is the boat now? If it is in Europe for more than xxx months it will become liable to VAT and from there to have to be CE plated? Of have I got that wrong?
I can see no problem with all this for as long as you stay out of EU waters but the moment you bring any vessel in the clock starts to tick - doesn't it?
 
boat is currently in the US but will be in the EU in June. Can stay under temporary importation for up to 8 months then just leave EU waters and return for another 18 months ad infinitum. No VAT & no RCD/CE required.
See my previous post on the subject here.
 
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