Cars vs boats

Might be a mental thing but if I'm out under power I spend the entire time listening for the slightest change in the engine note at which point I'm convinced that I'm at best 30 seconds away from catastrophic failure! its gets heightened on a calm sunny day and it only happens on my own boat!

I always liked the idea of the big, rather heavy, very slow-revving marine diesels from builders like Lister or Gardner, which presumably aren't under the same sort of stress as modern, lightweight AWB auxilliaries, and basically go on for ever. You wouldn't doubt one of those?
 
Does anyone else find themselves keeping cars longer and trying to maintain them more as a result of boat ownership?

Oh yes.

I kept my previous car (Volvo 740) for about 12 years. In that time it went from 120,000 miles to 350,000 miles (estimated - the odometer packed in at 278,000). I rebuilt the engine at about 250,000: only new main bearing shells + oil pump needed. The current V70 (cost £500) is just a young thing with about 220,000 miles, but since retiring from full time work I now only do about 10,000 miles a year so, unless one of its wretched computers packs in, it should last a while longer.
 
Only codswallop if you only account for the electricity used in the factory.

If, however, one factors in all the energy costs (such as raw material extraction and transportation to the factory, and, most significantly, the transportation energy used in getting the panel from China to its site here) then its true.

A solar panel uses more energy rock to roof than it will generate over 20 years.

Actually I'm a great fan of solar energy and have managed to take one of my properties in warmer climes totally "off grid" thanks to solar power.

However, a lot depends on where the solar panel is sited. It has always seemed to me to be a waste of resources to put a solar panel in the UK when the same panel sited in the Sahara would generate 3-4 times as much annual energy.

Indeed I read a year or so ago of a rather clever idea called the Solar Breeder scheme. A Japanese / Algerian consortium was proposing to use initial seedcorn capital to establish a substantially sized solar photovoltaic generator in the Sahara. The output from this would be used to melt and refine sand (not in short supply) to produce silicon crystals, which would be used to produce more solar panels...

Once surplus energy was available, some of the generated electricity could be used to drive pumps to draw in sea water, desalinate it, and irregate the desert. The shade underneath the solar collectors would be very useful in conserving moisture with overnight dew dripping off the undersides. Re-establishing vegetation, including edible crops, would seem a good idea.

Eventually the thing could grow big enough to supply the electricity needs of both the EU and sub-Sahara Africa (OK storage techniques are required) at a huge profit to the original investers. (I'm sure those cleverer than I can do a web search to flesh this out.)
 
Eventually the thing could grow big enough to supply the electricity needs of both the EU and sub-Sahara Africa (OK storage techniques are required) at a huge profit to the original investers. (I'm sure those cleverer than I can do a web search to flesh this out.)

I wish this was the first time I'd heard the idea, I'd be excited myself. All that sun-power, currently unused! I wonder why it goes unused? I've had to assume that, as you put it, those cleverer than I, who calculate affordability and practicality, decided it doesn't add up. :(
 
I wish this was the first time I'd heard the idea, I'd be excited myself. All that sun-power, currently unused! I wonder why it goes unused? I've had to assume that, as you put it, those cleverer than I, who calculate affordability and practicality, decided it doesn't add up. :(

I saw a programme a while back now, about how they had built this huge mirror in the desert in the USA, it collected the heat from the sun, and used it to boil water to make steam to drive turbines that provided electricity, they also showed how powerful it was by focussing the thing through lenses and cutting through 2' steel plate!

That has to be worth a pop don't it? I wonder why we have heard nothing much about it? It can't be because it doesn't work, because it patently does.
 
...they also showed how powerful it was by focussing the thing through lenses and cutting through 2' steel plate!

That has to be worth a pop don't it? I wonder why we have heard nothing much about it? It can't be because it doesn't work, because it patently does.

I'm in! I'm re-enthused. There can be nothing more persuasive than seeing Scaramanga's golden gun, brought to life. Was there by any happy chance, a control-lever which Britt Ekland's bikini-clad backside could inadvertently press?

PS., did you mean 2" thick steel plate, or 2'? Now the latter, I want to see! Perfect for cutting battletanks in half. :D
 
I'm in! I'm re-enthused. There can be nothing more persuasive than seeing Scaramanga's golden gun, brought to life. Was there by any happy chance, a control-lever which Britt Ekland's bikini-clad backside could inadvertently press?

PS., did you mean 2" thick steel plate, or 2'? Now the latter, I want to see! Perfect for cutting battletanks in half. :D

No just two inches, it was a huge mirror, it is probably somewhere on the internet But no Brit Ekland Butt as I recall.

I think this was the thing I saw, but there is more than one I believe? It was some time ago, and I may be a bit awry with me memory brain cells, but check it out yourself?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a_TUtlIwV7Fw
 
Interesting. Especially if the land required to situate the mirrors, is cheap to acquire. What a pity it takes market forces and forecasts, to energise a move towards clean sustainable power. As soon as there's a cloudy period, they'll scurry back to burning something. :(
 
Interesting. Especially if the land required to situate the mirrors, is cheap to acquire. What a pity it takes market forces and forecasts, to energise a move towards clean sustainable power. As soon as there's a cloudy period, they'll scurry back to burning something. :(

Dan, I am no scientist, and I am sure that there are people on here that will understand this stuff a lot more than me, there will also be those that will poo-poo it out of hand, but it seems to me that in places like deserts where there is constant sunshine, what's to loose?

Those investors aren't fools, there must be something to the idea, even if it's not perfected yet?
 
Dan, I am no scientist, and I am sure that there are people on here that will understand this stuff a lot more than me, there will also be those that will poo-poo it out of hand, but it seems to me that in places like deserts where there is constant sunshine, what's to loose?

Those investors aren't fools, there must be something to the idea, even if it's not perfected yet?

Don't mistake me for a negativist, Chrusty; I'm 100% in favour of schemes such as this, even without Britt Ekland...

...it's just that my own enthusiasm is often damped by the seemingly inert attitude of those who could finance something new, or who, at government level, could encourage its exploration. Presumably they have oil or coal-selling conventionalists to keep happy...

...so we have to credit the outfits which do follow their instincts and pursue clever/ground-breaking solutions. I've only grown cynical because there's usually so little positive reception given, to innovations whose adoption might undermine existing interests.

Not a good excuse. :o In fact, I suppose I should be a huge wind-farm fan, too. Even if the turbines don't yet begin to cover our requirements, they're significant movement in the right direction...

...the trouble is that once an idea undergoes boring stuff like economic feasibility projections, I lose interest. I was shocked to learn that the idea of capturing tidal power in the Bristol Channel, was dropped at a very early stage...

...there might be excellent reasons why it doesn't make sense to benefit from millions of tonnes of water pouring through a narrow place, twice/four times daily, but the idea was exciting, so its dismissal was exasperating, however well justified.

Stuff that looks like an obvious solution, seems generally to leave the majority completely underwhelmed. I'm in danger of likewise becoming just as sleepily, middle-agedly conceited with life as I've always known it. :eek::eek:
 
Last edited:
Don't mistake me for a negativist, Chrusty; I'm 100% in favour of schemes such as this, even without Britt Ekland...

...it's just that my own enthusiasm is often damped by the seemingly inert attitude of those who could finance something new, or who, at government level, could encourage its exploration. Presumably they have oil or coal-selling conventionalists to keep happy...

...so we have to credit the outfits which do follow their instincts and pursue clever/ground-breaking solutions. I've only grown cynical because there's usually so little positive reception given, to innovations whose adoption might undermine existing interests.

Not a good excuse. :o In fact, I suppose I should be a huge wind-farm fan, too. Even if the turbines don't yet begin to cover our requirements, they're significant movement in the right direction...

...the trouble is that once an idea undergoes boring stuff like economic feasibility projections, I lose interest. I was shocked to learn that the idea of capturing tidal power in the Bristol Channel, was dropped at a very early stage...

...there might be excellent reasons why it doesn't make sense to benefit from millions of tonnes of water pouring through a narrow place, twice/four times daily, but the idea was exciting, so its dismissal was exasperating, however well justified.

Stuff that looks like an obvious solution, seems generally to leave the majority completely underwhelmed. I'm in danger of likewise becoming just as sleepily, middle-agedly conceited with life as I've always known it. :eek::eek:

Hasn't the Bristol Channel barrage been given another look, I thought that they were starting to talk about it again?

I too get very exasperated at times, but I am but a small voice in a wilderness I often don't fully understand, I gave up worrying a long time ago. I can't possibly make a difference, so I don't try. I am not sure about wind turbines, we have a few around here, the other day, there was a nice steady breeze, and the perishing things were stopped???!!

I know a lot of the NIMBYs get all hot and bothered about them, but I don't mind them myself, I don't even think they are ugly. By the way, I just remembered about that mirror thing, it wasn't that array that did the steel cutting trick it was a dish shaped one that they visited in the same programme, it was a bit like a radio telescope dish thing.

Seems to me that if folk want nuclear power, well then, we have the biggest nuclear reactor imaginable hanging up there in the sky, all we have to do is learn how to harness it's power.
 
Seems to me that if folk want nuclear power, well then, we have the biggest nuclear reactor imaginable hanging up there in the sky, all we have to do is learn how to harness it's power.

And, a nice safe 93 million miles away, unlike Chernobyl...
 
Think of that...

...I was thinking the sun might have slipped out of its natural gyre, this weekend, in Devon. Blooming freezing!

Tell me about it! This week is all to cock as well, the weather forecast says it going to rain, and the it's sunny, then they change it and say it will be sunny, so it pisses down!!! I want to get a day on me boat to finish the jobs that are outstanding, but I need a couple of days to do it. Trouble is, I need the water round her, as she is on a mud berth, and the mud is to deep for me to just walk out to her, so I have to row out and back, which means a full day out there really. Where in Devon are you ish?
 
Dan, I am no scientist, and I am sure that there are people on here that will understand this stuff a lot more than me, there will also be those that will poo-poo it out of hand, but it seems to me that in places like deserts where there is constant sunshine, what's to loose?

Those investors aren't fools, there must be something to the idea, even if it's not perfected yet?

I'm no scientist either, but those deserts do perform a useful function in planetary weather patterns and removing vast quantities of energy from them could have far greater problems than we can imagine right now. I'm not saying we shouldn't do it, just that someone smarter than I needs to do some climate modelling first.
I actually think the answer to all our energy problems is local generation at the point of usage. That's the best way we can lower our impact on the environment as a whole. It would also drive people to lower their usage since they would have to literally have the power plant in their back yard. NIMBYs would then be perfectly entitled to opt out and return to nature :)
 
I'm no scientist either, but those deserts do perform a useful function in planetary weather patterns and removing vast quantities of energy from them could have far greater problems than we can imagine right now. I'm not saying we shouldn't do it, just that someone smarter than I needs to do some climate modelling first.
I actually think the answer to all our energy problems is local generation at the point of usage. That's the best way we can lower our impact on the environment as a whole. It would also drive people to lower their usage since they would have to literally have the power plant in their back yard. NIMBYs would then be perfectly entitled to opt out and return to nature :)

I think they do, but the way I see it, you wouldn't be depriving them of anything, just tapping into what's there, I am not advocating covering a whole desert with mirrors, just bits of them where the conditions are suitable. In any case, I would think that your concerns have been looked at and even measured?

I am not altogether sure what you mean by local generation, if you mean solar power as in they little wee cell thingies turning sunlight into volty thingies, I honestly haven't a clue how big one of those would have to be to generate enough power to keep the average house in telly, washing machine, and lights and stuff?? I reckon it would have to be pretty big though, for big, read expensive.

If one discounts nuclear, then I think that our future energy needs are going to have to come from where we can get 'em, and for me, as long as it's more or less, non polluting, I don't really mind where it comes from.

I am not comfortable with nuclear power, regardless of what the pro lobby say, there have been far too many accidents, and the long term effect of those is never worth the candle in my view, the short term effects are horrendous. I have the feeling that the pro nuclear lobby are not in the least concerned with what happens to them in the distant future, just give me what I want now seems to be what they are saying. As I see it we could be leaving a future world with problems that it could well do without. Of course, I could be talking total frollicks, but it's how I feel.
 
You would be depriving them of heat from the sunlight - that's where the energy comes from. This, in turn would affect the air currents which rise from equatorial regions and spread out to the north and south before falling again.
In addition to this, if the whole plan was carried out and vegetation became abundant, this would have an effect on the moisture level in the air, possibly creating additional cloud cover. It could also at sufficient scale be enough to change the balance of gases in the atmosphere. We've seen what adding massive amounts of CO2 does and the plants could in theory remove this and more which could change the temperature on a global scale. In the days following 9/11 the average global temperature fell by over a degree due to lower carbon emmisions.

Again, not saying we shouldn't but given that I can think up a couple of simple scenarios for things that could go wrong I suspect it could be much more comlpex than it first seems.

As for local generation; wind, solar, hydro etc can all be used at a small scale locally. The fact that consumption would need to drop was kind of the point. If you have to generate the power locally and therefore spend extra to get the power then perhaps the 40" telly would be considered adequate rather than the 60". Perhaps people would think twice about filling the kettle all the way, and maybe the heating would be at a more reasonable temperature. It's cheap and easily available power that has led us to be so wasteful in the first place :)
 
Trouble is, I need the water round her, as she is on a mud berth, and the mud is to deep for me to just walk out to her, so I have to row out and back, which means a full day out there really. Where in Devon are you ish?

SWMBO and I were at Beer Head in the tent for the weekend. Fabulous walks and views thereabouts, much more exciting than I had thought Lyme Bay could provide. Great seeing the Weymouth firework display from 30 miles, and a pink full moon rising over the sea.

I used to drive down that way with my sister twenty years ago, and we always wanted to get to Dartmouth and Salcombe and beyond, but Beer is a village as good as its name. That's Beer Head, in the photo. It was lovely to see Devon Yawls racing in home waters.

View attachment 18795

Hope you get the tide & time to sort your boat soon.
 
Last edited:
Top