Caribbean crusing - some preliminary questions...

[bbilly]

Mark,
This is the bit that I can't work out. I buy the boat, don't pay US state purchase tax coz I'm gonna go away and register on the UK SSR. Questions? Do I need residency in UK to do this? What does registering mean? Flying the red flag and changing the port of registration on the stern , is it just a paint job or is it more complicated. How do I insure? Will I have to continue paying US boat registration tax (seems a small sum to pay to be able to resell it back after my trip)? Do I need to de-document and then re-document if I want to resell. If I decide to keep the boat in the US and use it on and off is this possible? Sounds so complicated - but I don't want to end up in a US jail!

Found this
http://list.sailnet.net/read/messages?id=6159#61.

Seems that the easy bit is the sailing and all this burocartic hassle is the nightmare, groan groan.

Help!

 

[Lizzie_B]

It can be quite complicated, so please PM me and I will send you my phone number so you can call if you want to talk, but basically a vessel is normally registered to the country in which the owner is resident for tax purposes. This is not necessarily where you are actually living, and not necessarily the country you are a citizen of. For example, the boat I helped bring back last year was bought in Chicago, by a German Citizen who is resident for tax purposes in, and lives in Britain. He therefore de registered the boat with Wisconsin (yes I know Chicago is in Illinois)! and registered it on the British small ships register (SSR) and flies a red ensign. To comply with the SSR regulations he is required to display his SSR number on his boat. In my case, I bought my boat in Florida and applied for the 90day period of grace and moved the boat to Mobile, Alabama. Upon purchase, the boat was de registered as a Florida boat and registered with the UK SSR as I am a British Citizen normally resident in the UK. The vessel is now British Flagged and back in Florida at a RRF having work done on it. I am going out at the end of April to have a two week sailing holiday and move her round the coast. Then a delivery crew will take her up to Virginia/Maryland for a summer on the Chesapeake. My broker in St Petersburg dealt with all the paperwork on the Florida side. The thing we found most useful was on the advice of British Customs and Excise we had a British Bill of Sale (downloadable on line from the MCA website) completed by the vendors simultaeneously with the Florida bill of sale. The FL bill was recorded in dollars and the British Bill in pounds sterling. It is also important to keep any international money transfer receipts to do with the sale.
But as it said in the sailnet thread, the attitude is generally one of what will bring revenue to the State of Florida, and as long as you're open with them it's ok. In three CoastGuard Checks all I have been asked for is passport, registration document and bill of sale. Although generally you are supposed to remain outside the state for six months to be exempt sales tax, that is more to do with people who are going to permanently keep their boats in Florida whilst living in another state. Situations like coming into Florida for a two week holiday or passing through to another detination are not a problem, after all, you are bringing revenue to the state. Where are you normally resident, the site gives your location as Rome, so you may have to become Italian Registered depending on your individual circumstances? Bear in mind also that several Caribean Islands are EU Dependant Territories which might have implications for how you design your trip.

 

[Salty John]

Lizzie-B,
I don't want to add to what appears to be a very complicated situation, but if you have a British-flagged boat in the USA and you do not have a cruising permit you are not legal. If you do have a cruising permit, then you will know you have to leave after 12 months and be out of the country for 15 days before returning and getting a new permit. When you return you will need to re-enter with a US visa which you must have acquired out of the country. If you buy a boat in the USA you have to either pay sales tax and register the boat in the state of principal use or export the boat in the grace period. The rules seem complicated at first but are actually quite simple: Your immigrant status or nationality are irrelevant to registering a boat in the state in which it is used, with the exception that a non-US citizen cannot own a US Coastguard Documented vessel. You simply de-document it. If you state-register the boat you pay sales tax - about 8% depending on the state. If you do not register the boat in a state and change it's status to British flagged vessel you fall under the requirement to clear in, obtain a cruising permit, and leave when the permit expires.

 

[Lizzie_B]

Yes I know, but I have been waiting for some time now for a response from the various authorities that I have asked as to where I can get one! Also, the Coastguard HQ told me that the going out and coming back bit was for boats in constant use, eg live aboard cruisers, not boats in storage and used occassionally. However, the situation will not cause me a problem as we will be resetting the clock this year by visiting the Bahamas.

 

[Lizzie_B]

also, as I am moving around the states and resident in none I don't have a State of principal use!

 

[jimboaw]

First mistake, expecting a definitive response from "authorities"! Don't speak to them at all if you can avoid it. The "Cruising Permit" is something of a joke IMHO. I met a a guy in Ft Lauderdale when I bought my boat who had been living on his SSR registered boat in the same marina for 15 years ******** of Cowes. Now, this was not a boat that I would have chosen to nip across to the Bahamas in/on but had he chosen to do so a new cruising permit would have been issued with very few questions asked when he came back into US waters as long as he had the good sense not to tell them that he was leaving in the first place.

 

[AndrewB]

Unlike immigration, I've had no problems with customs in Ft Lauderdale. Friendly and mildly apologetic that they had to make charges for issuing a cruising permit, helpful when I sought advice regarding a yacht I was considering buying there, and again a couple of years ago on a non-boaty matter when we fell foul of a dodgy Floridan registered company.

Knowing when its best to ignore officialdom is fine art. Personally I prefer to play for safety and co-operate as much as possible with an unfamiliar bureaucracy, until I've got a feel for the areas where a blind eye might be turned.

 

[Lizzie_B]

Have checked with US immigration last night, and even in the midst of post 9/11 tightening up, it would seem that some reporting requirements for non US citizens entering and leaving the country are being dropped or significantly eased as the Immigration Services cannot afford the manpower being used up. They basically are more concerned with making sure you only come into the country legally. For people from visa waiver program countries the requirements are:
1. Complete form I-94 (the green one they give you on planes).
2.Don't have any criminal record.
3.Don't have any illness that is likely to cost the US tax payer money
4.Arrive by approved carrier (airline, shipping line that has signed up to the programme) Note not arrive and depart!
5.Demonstrate the means and intention to leave the US within 90days- hence the request for return portion of ticket! However, if you want to go through a lot of administrative hassle you can have this waived by getting a 'crew in transit' authority by prior arrangement with Immigration services, but in these days when return flights are actually cheaper than single, can't see much point in doing that.
If you want to make a short visit to Canada, Mexico or 'nearby islands' (which looking at the list seems to include the vast majority of the caribbean) you can re enter the states as long as you keep the little slip they put in your passport, and don't exceed the 90 day period from initial arrival in USA.
6.You can also use a visa waiver to enter the States initially from Canada, Mexico and the 'Nearby Islands' if you have arrived into those countries by a recognised carrier. The other rules all apply as if you had entered direct.
The reason you can't use a visa waiver, but need a visa when arriving in the USA for the first time on your own boat is because your own boat is not a 'signatory carrier' although they say the Department of Homeland Security is looking at ways of making this simpler for vessels flagged in 'approved countries' as they want to free up resources for dealing with those that are a serious threat to their security (drugs and Terrorists). They don't seem bothered about where your boat is, as long as they know where you are and you don't overstay your welcome. Of course for liveaboards this is one and the same thing!! The US government is quite happy to collect taxes from the money you spend having American yards and Marinas meet your storage and maintainence needs!!!
Depending on your intentions in sailing and providing your boat is over 30 feet and to be used for non commercial leisureyou can either get a cruising license or a user fee decal. They both cost about the same. The main difference seems to be the user fee decal allows multiple reentries to and from 'Nearby Islands and Canada/ Mexico' without having to clear in and out of customs and immigration each time. You should contact the Immigration and Border Security department at the Department of Homeland Security to find out which is most appropriate for your circumstances. It appears they are working towards supplying these on line to ease pressures on Manpower.
It would seem in bbilly's case he could initially arrive on visa waiver assuming he left for Carribean within the 90 day period. If during his time in the Caribean he then wanted to renter the States on his boat, he would need to get a visa, unless he had recently been for a visit home and returned on an approved signatory carrier, in which case he could re enter the states for up to 90days on a visa waiver form. The one thing they did stress was you must hand them the little green slip from your passport within the 90 day period to prove that you have not overstayed your waiver. Failiure to do so will affect your elegibility to use the visa waiver programme in the future. If for reasons beyond your control (eg illness, bad weather) you are unable to leave within the 90 days you can apply to the nearest immigration authority to have an extension. A friend who was delayed through flooding in the Erie Canal, had to do this last year. There was no problem. This must be done before the 90 day period expires. Basically they want to know who's in their country and when, and be reassured that you have no hostile intent. Seems a perfectly reasonable attitude to me, and one which our government would do well to copy.

 

[bbilly]

Thanks to all for the detialed info, I will need to sift through it all coz there seem to be various alternatives.

Will