Can your boat be too big?

[rwoofer]

I went all the way up to 44feet, then back to 29ft and now probably looking at next boat being 21 feet. The downsizing was nothing to do with handling. In some ways the heavyish Moody 44 (no bowthruster) was easiest to handle as it was more predictable in the gusts on passage and in the marina. So big is no problem if you know how to handle a boat properly.

What did it for me was the hassle factor of maintenance, mooring and keeping the thing clean and tidy. This starts to erode the fun time vs non-fun time quite considerably. Now that time is very much in demand (got young triplets to look after) I really just want to jump aboard something and sail. That means outboard motor, bucket loo and no real systems.

 

[Quandary]

I would like to point out that my original reference was to 40' (feet) not 40 (years); at my advanced years I can not afford to be ageist, though I am convinced I can handle our boat better than any young whippersnappers.
I will admit though, that a long beat up somewhere like the Sound of Mull can be harder work than it was 40 years ago, but that is because I have so far been unable to quell the competitive instinct.

 

[Lakesailor]

The Peter Principle, I think.

Oscar Wilde said many things, but not that.

Yes, you are right.
I'll have to throw away my book of "Little Known Oscar Wilde Observations"

 

[snowleopard]

I would like to point out that my original reference was to 40' (feet) not 40 (years)

I know. Just can't resist the temptation sometimes

 

[Poignard]

Unless you are lucky enough to have a tall, young wife with long legs one important factor is the freeboard of the boat.

I asked the Old Guvnor if she would like a bigger boat and high freeboard was one of the reasons she gave for not wanting one.

My 28 foot Twister has the deck only a foot or so above the level of the pontoon and is very easy to step on and off a pontoon or into the dinghy,

The other thing she likes about our old boat is the relatively narrow cockpit because she feels safe in it and is unlikely to get thrown across it if the boat heels

 

[DJE]

We've been thinking about a bigger boat for years now but our 29ft bilge keeler just took us to South Brittany and back in fine style including a few tight berths and drying harbours that would have been inaccessible for a bigger boat. We're now wondering why we would ever want to change her.
Also in our crowded home waters there always seems to be more room for smaller boats.

 

[ksutton]

A lot of the larger yachts which hardly ever move out of marina's (worldwide), are stuck because of insufficient crew to man them safely. A lot to be said for having a yacht that can be handled without relying on additional crew. Also agree with earlier posts its mostly a "Jones's" thing, sometimes just to get the extra entertaiment space below.

 

[snowleopard]

Reasons for wanting a big boat

Comfort below
Speed
Stability
Standing headroom
Seaworthiness

Reasons for wanting a smaller boat

Cost
Ease of handling
Berthing in small places
Less maintenance

 

[Tanqueray]

We run our 62' (33 ton) boat with just the two of us no probs.
Very slow motion, comfortable, and with a 50 W/L she can put the daily miles on.
We used to run a 93' gaffer on the same basis - again no big deal.
If you look at any of the bigger charter boats it's nearly always skipper plus mate until you get to 100' region. Go to Plymouth, Portsmouth, Chester, York or wherever and you will see passenger boats carrying hundreds of passengers with a skipper +1 - again no problems. We used to own and run a 128 passenger trip boat, day trips and night trips with me +1 - no bow thruster and again no incidents in years of service.

40' limit - surely you are not serious?

 

[Quandary]

Just come back up from the Canal Basin, there is a guy down there just now, who says he can not park his 48' Oceanis (with bow thruster) against the clear North Wall 'because it is curved', so he is sitting in lock 2 until the bridge opens with other boats queueing up behind him. Zero wind today!
Yet the much larger old steam puffer Vic 32 works from there for weeks every spring, on windy days he does use his springs to get clear, but then he is a seaman. The basin was used by steam puffers and sailing fishing boats for centuries but it is too small and awkward for many of today's yacht skippers.
I know I could berth his yacht for him and get it out again, no problem and I would not be using the thruster, but the owner can not. I am always cautious when I encounter a fin keel boat with a bow thruster, big motor cruisers with ridiculous windage do need them to turn at slow speed but any fin keel yacht will rotate around its keel.
There seem to be more and more people who are in boats they can not handle, if your cruising involves only short passages, marina berths, shore power etc. surely two adults should be able to be comfortable in 40'.

 

[mixmaster]

We have a 45 footer and sail it as a couple all the time. That includes weekends in Yarmouth, short handed racing and long distance cruising. If done properly, mooring and close quarters maneuvering should not require any muscle so I agree with some of the posts above. Once sailing the loads can be bigger and things may require a bit more forethought but as a reward you have a more comfortable and quicker boat.
If I was just a "weekend warrior", my ideal boat would probably be around 37 feet but as we bought our boat with a long voyage in mind, we are happy with the "compromise".
On the other hand, having a 45 footer is fun when you get a good bunch of people to go sailing or racing with for the weekend.
We use our boat a lot but still find the bills large. Would probably start to resent them if we didn't enjoy and use the boat so much.
Also, on a modern fin keeler in that size range bow a thruster are unnecessary.

 

[ctva]

When you think about it, it's not size that's the issue, it's that more ane more people that are teking to the water have never 'served an apprentiship' on friends boats or even taken the time to learn. I saw similar ineptitude at the Crinan Sea Lock at the weekend when a 37ish foot yacht could not manoever into the open lock with zero wind, no ropes and no clue. This despite the lock keeper having briefed them on the VHF 5 minutes earlier. The two of us were cringing and trying not to look!

With boats being relatively cheap these days sailing or stinkboating isalways going to look appealing to those uneducated in the skills.

 

[prv]

When you think about it, it's not size that's the issue, it's that more ane more people that are teking to the water have never 'served an apprentiship' on friends boats

I don't disagree with you at all, but having learnt to sail via the "family and friends" route I do find that close-quarters manoeuvering is not something you'll necessarily get practice at. Not surprisingly, when you're moving close to the spikey bits and other people's boats, the owner tends to be keen to take the tiller himself - and less-than-supremely-confident crew will be glad not to have the responsibility either.

Despite sailing literally as long as I can remember, I had never taken a yacht alongside until friends and I in our early 20s started chartering together. It's still the part I'm least confident about, although touch wood no major cockups so far

I suppose even if you haven't done it yourself, you do at least have the experience to know what is sensible, what is not, and whether a given situation is likely to go smoothly.

Pete

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Can a boat be too big?

There are two problems here as I see it.
1. You get older and you wish for greater comfort and ideally more space.
2. you get older and managing a larger boat becomes a difficulty.

I'ts possibly a case of keeping up with the Jones's after 38-42 feet.
As others have said, all you need is somewhere to eat, sleep and entertain a few...

Perhaps they also need room for the washing machine and clothes driers and somewhere for their skipper and maid to sleep?
When I went to chat to the skeleton crew on a huge yacht whilst in Eire a few years ago, they actually had 3 washing machines and two driers onbard!

 

[Victoria Sponge]

We've found that our 32 feet boat is plenty big enough for us for holidays and weekends. Mostly it's just the two of us and our dog, but we have had two more adults and two more dogs onboard for the weekend.

We met an Irish couple in Turkey who lived on their 32 feet boat and had been on it for five years. They said it was big enough for two.

 

[pyrojames]

I moved from a 33 footer to a 50 footer, both old, long keelers. Occaisionally I have trouble getting a berth (twice in 4 years), but then I am happy enough to anchor off, and a little sea running doesn't bother me.

I choose my marinas when I need to, based on current weather, but keep her on a swing mooring so that I can sail alone, or with the kids (too young to help as yet) or the whole family. I can get the main up and sheeted in without winches, but rely on a roller for the main headsail. The staysail is hanked.

Although the boat was a bit intimidating to begin with you rapidly come to terms withit, and now I find boas under 40 feet feel very small, although I do rather rattle around when sailing solo.

I also confess to having broken my foot fending off, but that time I actually had crew on board and didn't plan as well as I would have alone...

Sailing is a state of mind, size doesn't really matter.

 

[Robin]

Well it seems to me that in many but not all replies where the need for large size is questioned, the comments come from smaller boat owners. In many cases too I think the small is best argument comes from those who have small and have never had big(ger) thus perhaps are less qualified to comment.

Each to their own always, but I prefer bigger without being huge. I feel I can make that comment having owned many cruising boats since 1970, from a 21ft Debutante up to our last 41ft Sun Legende and having now moved up again for a live aboard 47ft motor yacht. Some of us got out of our camping phase before moving onto boats and a few home comforts are essential IMO for a live aboard or longer term cruiser, otherwise sooner or later the shore will beckon. That doesn't mean you cannot cruise the oceans on a 21 footer because you can, it has been done, just don't expect me to!

 

[Flying Penguin]

There is a certain amount of "I know your requirements better than you do" going round today....

Obviously anyone who is outside their limits of skill should obtain tuition to resolve this and if a boat is simply too big to physically manage (e.g. neither old codger can safely winch the main in), then the boat is too big for that particular couple, but that can happen at 26ft or 62ft...

Snow Leopard gave a pretty good list of the pros and cons so I won't repeat it, but not every (live aboard) couple wants to live in caravanesque conditions which, with the best will in the world, a 32 footer will become quite quickly and a 40 footer will become a little less quickly. Your way of living and sailing is not necessarily for everyone.

My personal sailing experience is currently limited to boats between 32 and 38ft, but if my wife and I are ever able to sail off into the sunset (a distant dream at this point) it'll be on the largest boat that stays within our skill and budget limits, accepting compromises as to available anchorages etc. Nothing to do with "keeping up with the Jone's", more a desire to have the space to have friends & family join us and give us some private space. You can only sit in one place at a time, but you don't always want it to be the same place

Jamie

 

[AntarcticPilot]

One point that hasn't been made is that any boat larger than a dinghy requires some sort of mechanical advantage to handle sails, steer or carry out pretty much any normal manoeuvre. On my 31' Moody, I can't handle the main-sheet without a 4-1 mechanical advantage on the main-sheet (and it's much easier since I went to 6-1); I definitely need winches to handle the jib under most normal conditions, I can only JUST haul the mainsail up without a winch - and greatly prefer to use one! The tiller is about 4' long, giving substantial leverage on the rudder (I'd guess I have about an 8-1 advantage, if I've guessed the centre of effort of the rudder about right). In fact, it is hard to think of a single system aboard where no mechanical advantage is required for even a relatively modest size of boat - certainly not one that anyone here would class as "too large".

Basically, the bigger the boat, the more you will need a higher mechanical advantage, that's all. Of course, that may slow sail handling - a higher advantage means more rope to pull, more turns of a winch, more turns of the wheel or whatever. But that need not be a problem.

Ultimately, we are all handling a lump of boat that weighs tons using controls that are powered by muscles. Even a small sail can apply more force than we can exert without some mechanical advantage. You can get it just as wrong, just as easily on a small boat as on a large one.

As far as boat handling is concerned, I've seen as many people make a muck up of handling a small boat as a large one - it is a matter of practise! I can get it just as wrong at 31' as another person might at 50'

 

[snooks]

Just come back up from the Canal Basin, there is a guy down there just now, who says he can not park his 48' Oceanis (with bow thruster) against the clear North Wall 'because it is curved', so he is sitting in lock 2 until the bridge opens with other boats queueing up behind him. Zero wind today!

This curved wall?

or this one