Can your boat be too big?

[snooks]

Why is a seperate cabin with a decent sized double berth and a reasonable galley not possible on anything under 35 foot?

Our galley expands to incorporate the top of the engine compartment/companionway steps and then the chart table if needed. If my wife is helping, the saloon becomes a preparation surface too. How much bigger would you like a galley to be?

We also have a wide en suite double berth up the front, that fits me 5'10 (high, not wide)and my slightly shorter wife on our Sadler 32.

We don't have a separate aft cabin, but when we're at sea one of us is on the helm and the other is on the leeward bunk in the saloon.

A bigger boat would be a nice luxury, but would cost more to buy and keep and we'll happily stick with what we've got....until I win the lottery

 

[Simondjuk]

You can do it even smaller than 31 feet!

An Evolution 25 has a huge double berth in the forepeak (albeit with no standing room in the cabin, but it is a seperate cabin), has a seperate heads complete with decent sized pull out sink, seats six in the saloon in comfort and eight in a cosy fashion, and has a galley which can accommodate a 2-burner hob oven and grill cooker and has a sink you can actually wash up in, it's even got a proper draining board. It should have been named the Tardis 25!

 

[FullCircle]

You can do it even smaller than 31 feet!

An Evolution 25 has a huge double berth in the forepeak (albeit with no standing room in the cabin, but it is a seperate cabin), has a seperate heads complete with decent sized pull out sink, seats six in the saloon in comfort and eight in a cosy fashion, and has a galley which can accommodate a 2-burner hob oven and grill cooker and has a sink you can actually wash up in, it's even got a proper draining board. It should have been named the Tardis 25!

I agree, and its got 6 foot headroom too. However, it isnt as nicely appointed as a Sadler 29.
I had an Evo 25 for 7 years....

 

[Simondjuk]

True. That's why I've been doing a little reappointing on mine. Click to see.

 

[FullCircle]

True. That's why I've been doing a little reappointing on mine. Click to see.

So you have. Lovely job.
I had a flip up chart table and drawer made to go on the bulkhead, which would fit a Yeoman. Worked very well.
See yours is called Trifle. Mine was called Cauliflower. Well, Chou-Fleur III anyway.

 

[doug748]

True. That's why I've been doing a little reappointing on mine. Click to see.

Excellent work.

 

[McSalty]

I now have read thru 7 pages of postings, and it'll seem to me that apples are being compared with bananas.

Most people here seem to be experienced sailors who groom their passion during weekends, local holidays and the occasional 2-4week trip.
Aggreed: Absolutely no point in getting anything bigger than what most of you seem to fancy, all other thoughts aside, it's also a lot more effort to get a big boat ready just to leave port. (No jumping on board and tossing the lines!)

However:
When one gets into living aboard, year 'round, long distance blue water sailing, plus maybe the need to pick some occasional income to help pay the bills, .... what's there to debate? The bigger you can go, you should!

"Handling" can't truly be an issue, because once you get up to certain dimensions there is so much equipment available a lame one legged sailor could single hand any boat. Once you reach a certain size the question of squeezing into tiny spots in marinas does not even come up any more. You stay at anchor and dinghy in - or you berth at the far end and use the bikes on board. (You got the space to carry them after all, even motor-cycles)

The main argument FOR going as big as possible is: SAFETY!
The bigger the boat at sea, the faster, the smoother movements, the more rest and comfort the crew will find and a rested, comfortable, warm crew IS the key to safety!

So, each to his own, and there simply is no single valid answer to the question, - a quick look at the wide range of yards & models prooves the fact that tastes and requirements differ as people do.

We did not choose our current boat, she "choose us" ... if I would have been out looking for a boat I would no have looked at anything less that 50' - but, now things are as they are and I could not be more happy with our new "floating home" that we will take to the Caribbean for winters and return to the Med for summers without any second thoughts.

Are some people handling boats that seem to be way too big for them? Sure! But don't we all grow with the challanges?

Don't know about you guys, but if I see a small boat pullling somewhere with a crew clearly struggling to get it right, I still have no problem to jump into my dinghy and use it as a tug to help them get where they want to go.
When I started sailing (oh, quite a few years ago) sailors where most of all a "non-judgemental" community. And that I liked, and that would be nice to see returning.

 

[Victoria Sponge]

I have a 29 footer that is the perfect size for the two of us.

The only reason we're thinking of going bigger is to get a seperated sleeping cabin with a decent sized double as I'm getting fed up with having to convert the main cabin every night, so when we go longer term can see it will be a major problem. There are only 2 of us. We don't need six berths!

Why is a seperate cabin with a decent sized double berth and a reasonable galley not possible on anything under 35 foot? Except for a cat, and the extra mooring fees put them out of the equasion

Our Benny 323 has a separate cabin, with a really decent sized bed and a reasonable galley.

 

[Tanqueray]

I totally agree with 'McSalty's view about being non-judgemental - to listen to some of the posts on here you would have to conclude that some Scots locals are now advocating the abolition of 60' Scottish MFV's, Alfred Mylne's, and short handed Clyde puffers - surely not!

 

[Simondjuk]

The majority of issues I see that fall into the category of 'Boat too big for the crew?' are centred around close quarters handling. Whenever I see people getting into a pickle it invariably appears to be because they've never been shown, or perhaps bothered to learn, pretty basic techniques.

The number of times I see a chap of retirement age imploring his wife to 'JUMP!' as they arrive too fast and too far away from the target for many an athletic man to consider jumping a sensible option beggars belief. They seem to be utterly unaware that one even needs to leave the boat to make her secure, let alone take a leap of faith to do so.

The Mrs and I regularly handle boats in the 50 to 60 foot region into and out of tight berthing situations with no drama or stress. Indeed, when people see we're short crewed on a large boat and offer to take lines from us, we decline as a rule. There's simply no need of extra assistance, and the majority of the time the taker of the line will do something unexpected and counter-productive with it anyway. Are we especially gifted? No. We simply know most of the tricks and techniques there are to know and use them regularly enough to be slick at carrying them out. The option to learn and practice is open to all, yet it's amazing how few pursue it.

 

[Signed Out]

Such an open ended topic, and a typically scuttlebuttish can'o worms of course.

I agree with Quandary's (op) suggestion and many posters here. Possibly with all to an extent. But boy oh boy, there's some typically scuttlebuttish bluster and opinion going on.

Of course many have boats too big; it's the norm in society to want more, bigger, better, fancier. Not necessarily all the same things either, i.e. Big does not automatically mean better, and so on.

Without dragging the point too far, Mr S. Leopard's bullets are good but to say bigger is more seaworthy... I'll just say that is open to a long and bile ridden thread of it's own. Not saying this is bile ridden, but many are; this is all pleasant so far.

As for the claim that the posters promoting smaller craft are all owners of such is rather false, and misleading, as numerous write of downsizing, which seems to me to show subject knowledge and reasoned decision, albeit their own, for their own purposes.

Yes, many folk are highly skilled, and many are comfortable with any size within reaon, but many are not (how to state the obvious, lesson 1 is free). However I do believe that there is a tendency towards bigger boats, often beyond logic, and there are many discussions on this here. For me, my dream is a big boat of 35-37 feet. How could anyone call that small (yes, pedants, at sea a cruise ship feels small, blah blah, but come on)?

And of course we all know the old chestnut of wrong person for the job- the usual case of better helm but less hardy fellow (Mrs often) being fender/rigger, while less subtle helm, more physical person (Mr typically) grandstands at the wheel (tiller users have more sense, hehehe) at those hazardous moments in locks and so on.

Bet you see plenty of the above, Mr Q.

 

[snooks]

And of course we all know the old chestnut of wrong person for the job- the usual case of better helm but less hardy fellow (Mrs often) being fender/rigger, while less subtle helm, more physical person (Mr typically) grandstands at the wheel (tiller users have more sense, hehehe) at those hazardous moments in locks and so on.

Going through the Crinan I was on the helm, and my wife did all the locks. But contrary to what you might initially think, although I'm much bigger than my wife, the right people were doing the right job.

She didn't feel confident handling Pixie on her own with chunky stone walls all around in blustery conditions, and I have back problems thanks to being hit by a 12 tonne powerboat. Just because the man is bigger and more physical looking it doesn't mean he is, so try not to be too judgemental at first. When it's obvious he's a lazy oaf you can be as judgemental as you want

Because I park better I'll do the close quarters handling so my wife doesn't have to jump! But when tacking my wife will be on the helm and I on the winches, likewise anchoring, I'll do all the manual work up the pointy end.

 

[BrianH]

Of course many have boats too big; it's the norm in society to want more, bigger, better, fancier. Not necessarily all the same things either, i.e. Big does not automatically mean better, and so on.
[.....]
However I do believe that there is a tendency towards bigger boats, often beyond logic, and there are many discussions on this here. For me, my dream is a big boat of 35-37 feet. How could anyone call that small (yes, pedants, at sea a cruise ship feels small, blah blah, but come on)?

Probably because I started sailing impecuniously 50 years ago with small (19' then 24') cruiser/racers and slowly worked my way up to my present 31' boat that I live and cruise on throughout the summer without a thought of it not being large enough - it feels perfect for me alone with sometimes a single companion.

It's what we did then, at least in my class of young professionals with mortgage and growing family; we had little extra disposable income to spend on our hobby, unlike, it seems, today.

I continue to be staggered at the size of boat now bought by first-time yacht owners. Of course, the intention is for the entire family to participate from the first, a laudable intention and one that somehow I did not much consider. I sailed out of Whitby on the north-east coast, which was not often suitable for a family excursion in a small boat, which was all I could afford in those days.

But when I retired eight years ago and searched for something larger and more comfortable than the 8.3 metre Trapper that I had cruised in for 23 years, I set my sights on a limit of 10 metres to keep mooring and maintenance costs to a minimum while giving adequate living and storage space for my modest cruising plans each summer. I have not been disappointed. Size is relative and much dependant on the depth of the pocket.

 

[snowleopard]

tI continue to be staggered at the size of boat now bought by first-time yacht owners.

Every couple of months someone will post on here 'I am looking at an xyz 50. I haven't sailed before, is it a good idea?' There are always plenty of posters saying 'go for it' though I suspect if the newbie was going to be mooring in the next berth they wouldn't be so keen. The last one actually proposed to start with a 65 footer!

 

[Robin]

Such an open ended topic, and a typically scuttlebuttish can'o worms of course.

I agree with Quandary's (op) suggestion and many posters here. Possibly with all to an extent. But boy oh boy, there's some typically scuttlebuttish bluster and opinion going on.

Of course many have boats too big; it's the norm in society to want more, bigger, better, fancier. Not necessarily all the same things either, i.e. Big does not automatically mean better, and so on.

Without dragging the point too far, Mr S. Leopard's bullets are good but to say bigger is more seaworthy... I'll just say that is open to a long and bile ridden thread of it's own. Not saying this is bile ridden, but many are; this is all pleasant so far.

As for the claim that the posters promoting smaller craft are all owners of such is rather false, and misleading, as numerous write of downsizing, which seems to me to show subject knowledge and reasoned decision, albeit their own, for their own purposes.

Yes, many folk are highly skilled, and many are comfortable with any size within reaon, but many are not (how to state the obvious, lesson 1 is free). However I do believe that there is a tendency towards bigger boats, often beyond logic, and there are many discussions on this here. For me, my dream is a big boat of 35-37 feet. How could anyone call that small (yes, pedants, at sea a cruise ship feels small, blah blah, but come on)?

And of course we all know the old chestnut of wrong person for the job- the usual case of better helm but less hardy fellow (Mrs often) being fender/rigger, while less subtle helm, more physical person (Mr typically) grandstands at the wheel (tiller users have more sense, hehehe) at those hazardous moments in locks and so on.

Bet you see plenty of the above, Mr Q.

Sure people downsize sometimes as well, but usually because their available time to use them or their normal cruising range from home shrinks, or their finances make that the right thing for them. That is quite understandable.

Bigger isn't always about bedroom size either. We were perfectly well served by our Westerly 33 Ketch for 14 years yet we traded up to a 41 footer which today isn't considered really big anyway. Our reason for trading up was for more performance under sail and especially the ability to keep up a better passage speed without having to use the motor to do so. Speed, by which I mean average speed over long periods, displacement speeds not momentary surfs or planes, basically comes from a combination of waterline length plus adequate sail area and the ability to make use of it. With our 41 footer we could sail at acceptable speeds in much lower windspeeds and really eat up the miles when the wind was more. By way of illustration Poole to Cherbourg (60mls) with the W33 we planned on 10hrs and could sometimes sail it all and had even done 9hrs, whereas with the SL41 we planned on 9hrs, rarely motored it and 8hrs was common and 7hrs our record. This is just us two bus pass holders BTW not a full race crew.

Your ideal is a 35-37 footer, nothing wrong with that at all. When we had our W33 (big for it's size) and thought about trading up we started looking at 36/37ft, but soon realised the costs were much higher yet the space on board offered little more than we had and the performance was little better. Lots of extra dosh then for not a lottle. Hence we shifted our search to 41 footers like the Oceanlord or similar Moodys, even Starlight 39s. That we found our superb Jeanneau Sun Legende was pure luck, it was even much less money than what we had looked at over 18 months and rejected.

We had no bow thruster and after our first season realised one was not at all needed. We could handle it fine in confined spaces forwards or backwards quite well and more easily than the previous W33.

Now we have moved up another notch to 47ft and to the darkside in a motoryacht. Why? Because we will be full time liveaboards in the USA based in the Intracoastal, primary consideration is home comforts and although plenty of cruising is a given (out to Bahamas, Exumas and up/down the ICW) we recognise that comfort when stopped is top priority. ICW cruising involves lots of motoring even in slippery sailboats and I'm working on getting rides out on sailboats for when withdrawal symptoms kick in!

Each to their own, but also in the knowledge that the boat you (not you personally, people at large) are watching (large or small) may have been chosen for entirely different reasons than those that would influence your personal choice.

 

[McSalty]

I really like this forum, but you guys make me feel SO(!) out of place here with my 90' boat......