Can I live on a 26ft Vega/Nic/Contessa/Sadler?

[Kelpie]

As long as it can be sailed single handed, has some space down below, and is ocean-worthy, I'm not too fussy... is there a big difference in cost between a 26, a 29 and a 31 in terms of maintenance and berthing?

The boat will always feel absolutely enormous when you are lying on your back scraping barnacles off.
But it will feel absolutely tiny when you are in bad weather out of sight of land.
Hard to believe sometimes that it is the same boat...

 

[doug748]

... is there a big difference in cost between a 26, a 29 and a 31 in terms of maintenance and berthing?

In my view not as big as the difference is living accommodation. I always felt that marina folk get a relatively poor deal towards the 20ft end of the spectrum as compared with 30 ft.
In the longer boat you can probably stand up, you often get a forward cabin that feels separate - you can leave your sleeping kit in there and close the door. You have a loo which does not feel like the elephant in the room. A living area that is not on top of the washing up, a desk and a galley tucked out of the way. BTW, I have nothing against smaller boats but feel they don't get a great marina deal.

Down to brass tacks, I see Liverpool do not publish prices but an old PBO list suggests they are not particularly cheap. In a marina local to me a 8m boat might pay 3.5k pa and an extra 2m would be about £900 more.
When visiting you might expect to pay about a fiver ish more per night. The difference, if any, on swinging moorings is small change.

When I moved from 26 to 32 feet I found the costs pretty similar. I still bought one can of antifoul per season but probably put in on thinner. -)
Many things, like instruments are the same price whatever the size of boat, on the other hand for some big ticket items, like sails, you can expect to pay c30% more for the extra area, which would probably be well in excess of £1000

 

[Ladybirdgaffcutter]

I lived on a 24' Hurley (small glassfibre sailing yacht) for a couple of years in the Essex/Kent areas, in winter you really will be more comfortable if you fit a small diesel or coal heater, with a flue. Cosiness is vital for mental health in the winter, and electric heaters run from a marina 240v supply just aren't the same.
Also, especially in the UK, marinas have a tendency to charge you for every kilowatt-hour you use, it can really mount up, I promise you! They always charge more than the main supplier as well.

Most marinas are not technically residential moorings, but if you don't make a noise etc, or hang out loads of washing, they are often pragmatic and turn a blind eye. You are extra security for them after all.

If you bluntly ask in the office if you can live aboard, they normally have to say no, even if you can see liveaboards..you have to play it by ear I have found, I'm a liveaboard and nobody has evicted me yet

On the plus side, it's a great feeling being captain of your own floating home, with the ability to go for a cruise sometimes, there are so many positive aspects, all I can say is, go for it!

A warning, sailing can be habit-forming and you will soon crave stronger 'hits'..

 

[ross84]

Thanks - this is super encouraging and you're comments about marinas correspond to what I've been told through asking (discreetly) around.

Many yachts I view don't tend to have heating and certainly not burners, however, I agree - these seem essential for winter living. Do you have any experience of fitting one by chance?

The more I look at it, the more it is making sense - and a maybe a great life experience too. I guess the harder part now is actually buying a decent boat and making the necessary adjustments.

I have to say, hot water, a shower, a heater and working toilet (maybe switching sea toilet to a cassette toilet while livig aboard?) will be 'luxuries' I could definitely use.

My budget is 10-20k, but definitely prefer leaving money over to do repairs, services, upgrades etc.

Thanks for all the comments so far; they've been super useful.

 

[Uricanejack]

You might be able to. Good luck with it.
I probably couldn’t. My wife just plain wouldn’t.
We lived in a 24 ft RV while I built my house. Wife, Three kids, 1 cat which had 4 kittens and I. We had the RV for several years and had used it for regular family camping trips. Also as over flow accommodation to our small house.
Sold the small house to build a bigger one on a bare lot.

Driving to the the land and setting up camp in the summer was kind of fun. Even if we did feel a bit “homeless”.
So the first summer was fun. With some annoyances. Pluming, and laundry particularly. Cooking was a bit limited. I quickly arranged power, water, temporary pluming ect. Our RV was equipped with Refrigerator and central heat. Otherwise we would have split.
By Fall the fun wore off. Winter was actually quite unpleasant. Next Spring and summer were better as I got closer to completion and was at lock up. I got caught by the building inspector cooking bacon sandwiches without electrical certification.
By next winter my wife unilaterally decided to hell with finishing the house she was moving in.

We have never gone RV camping since.

I did by a boat instead. I will never live on it.

I do enjoy cruising for a while. Current limitations are the same pluming laundry with the additional limitations on power refrigeration and heating. I like my boat, decisions to make before taking on longer trips. Change boat for better living accommodations or add heating, hot and cold pressure water, refrigerationv and a cockpit enclosure.
My conclusion living on a small boat is possible but not fun.

 

[Kelpie]

Many yachts I view don't tend to have heating and certainly not burners, however, I agree - these seem essential for winter living. Do you have any experience of fitting one by chance?
.

Choosing a heating system is a bit of a can of worms. Options in order of price:
- Plug in heater. Obviously only works in a marina! But depending on the cost of electricity is likely to be by far the best option, if available.
- Chinese 'parking heater'- likely to cost around £200-£250 once installed (you can buy the heater for £150 but will need to add some components). Burns diesel and produces warm air that is ducted around the boat. These are quite new to the market and on the whole people seem happy with them- but I'm not sure if they are robust and safe enough to be run day in, day out, for a liveaboard.
- Small solid fuel stove or charcoal stove- around £500- can be lovely things, but in a small boat it is surprisingly hard to fit one in. Fuel is potentially cheap, or free, but is bulky and needs to be kept dry. For me the biggest drawback is that you will always wake up to a cold boat, as they are too small to keep burning overnight.
- Propex: from around £500. These burn the same gas as your cooker and produce warm air that can be ducted around the boat. People seem to like them, but gas is not as cheap as diesel so the running costs might be quite high.
- Planar heater- around £500. Same idea as the Chinese ones (and more expensive German ones), i.e. burns diesel, produces ducted hot air. They are newish to the market but seem pretty well trusted already.
- Drip diesel heater (e.g. Refleks)- around £700. A trusted favourite, extremely reliable and fairly economical to run. Unlike a solid fuel stove it can be left running continuously, including overnight. But it will tend to only heat up the cabin that it is in, and the smaller ones are fairly low output. Like a solid fuel stove, you need a decent bit of space for the stove and flue.
- Blown air diesel heater (Eberspacher, Webasto, Mikuni)- these are the established players in the market, most likely to be fitted to a boat, and are generally very good but will be the most expensive option.

The blown air heaters are all pretty good but have quite high electricity consumption. So if you are trying to live off-grid that might be an issue. If in a marina, then obviously not, but you might as well plug in a fan heater!

 

[All_at_Sea]

Can I live on a 26ft Vega/Nic/Contessa/Sadler?

Technically yes, but in reality, no. Too small.

 

[jamie N]

As others have said, you've many options. I've a Gypsy stove, about 6" square on my Folkboat, which is really very good at heating the living area, but most essentially at drying it. Gas and diesel heaters do introduce condensation and blown air heaters are quite hard on batteries I believe, if one's away from an electrical source. However, diesel is far more efficient by volume. However, I only used a 'few' kgs. of charcoal in summer when I've been living onboard for several months in the North of Scotland, and they took up very little space. As was said, the heat & warmth from a stove is far nicer than the clinical effect from a fan heater; and that's a good thing, as it adds to the experience of 'The Boat', which helps remove a few of the tribulations involved with residing on a smallish boat!
I've no cool box on my boat for example, as I've a good bilge to store stuff in for the few days that it'll keep before I've either consumed it, or (rarely) it's gone off, which does mean that I do shopping a little and often, which is my way of life anyway.
You're options are very broad, but good advice would be to start with the most easily reversed/replaced manner of doing it, which might be for you being (say) in a marina, with shore power, to utilise that whilst you enjoy the 'gentle' learning curve of this new way of living.
I wish you luck, and keep us up to date with progress.

 

[Kelpie]

Gas and diesel heaters do introduce condensation and blown air heaters are quite hard on batteries

Very good points but one nit, heaters only introduce condensation if they do not have a flue. All of the heating options I suggested, including the gas and diesel ones, do have flues.

 

[jamie N]

Very good points but one nit, heaters only introduce condensation if they do not have a flue. All of the heating options I suggested, including the gas and diesel ones, do have flues.

Of course they do! Apologies, I got the types mixed in my head with 'camping gaz' types, and gave them all a bad name.

 

[stevie69p]

A dehumidifier is a real boon from October through to April I find. I just run mine (a Meaco dessicant type) on the low fan setting from bedtime until I get up in the morning and it keeps the cabin nice and dry and condensation free. For a 27 footer in a marina, I find a fan heater does the trick, as it is instant heat, even though I also have an Eberspacher. I would love a Refleks or Dickinson stove, but alas there's not much space available to mount one on my boat.

 

[Scomber]

As others have said, you've many options. I've a Gypsy stove, about 6" square on my Folkboat, which is really very good at heating the living area, but most essentially at drying it. Gas and diesel heaters do introduce condensation and blown air heaters are quite hard on batteries I believe, if one's away from an electrical source. However, diesel is far more efficient by volume. However, I only used a 'few' kgs. of charcoal in summer when I've been living onboard for several months in the North of Scotland, and they took up very little space. As was said, the heat & warmth from a stove is far nicer than the clinical effect from a fan heater; and that's a good thing, as it adds to the experience of 'The Boat', which helps remove a few of the tribulations involved with residing on a smallish boat!
I've no cool box on my boat for example, as I've a good bilge to store stuff in for the few days that it'll keep before I've either consumed it, or (rarely) it's gone off, which does mean that I do shopping a little and often, which is my way of life anyway.
You're options are very broad, but good advice would be to start with the most easily reversed/replaced manner of doing it, which might be for you being (say) in a marina, with shore power, to utilise that whilst you enjoy the 'gentle' learning curve of this new way of living.
I wish you luck, and keep us up to date with progress.

All well said , we run our S29 like this , eber and fitted charcoal heater last season, good combo, and if you really want to you can top up last thing and it stays in easy all night shut down , but you might be tooo warm ,plenty of amps and a bit of solar helps too

 

[ross84]

Is installing a flu-type heater difficult? I can only surmise that it involves cutting through part of the hull.

 

[Kelpie]

Is installing a flu-type heater difficult? I can only surmise that it involves cutting through part of the hull.

For a natural draft flue, you would most likely go out through the coachroof or deck. The fitting will need to provide sufficient protection to the GRP. Sizes range from about an inch (for charcoal or paraffin fuelled heaters) to maybe 3" for the diesel drip feed types, to 4"+ for a woodburner. Location is critical because the natural tendency seems to be for the chimney to flow the wrong way- at least in my experience. So the outlet needs to quite high up, and in clear air. Probably the commonest location is on the coachroof, about level with the mast and as far to one side as possible.

A blown-air heater will have a forced exhaust which can be placed in various locations. This is a one inch flexible stainless pipe. Commonest location is on the transom, although I put mine in the outside of the cockpit coaming.

 

[Virgo58]

Hi! I've just found your question and the thread after registering. Your initial question is pretty much what mine was going to be. My plan is to buy a 25 to 30 ft boat to live on. I am also used to small spaces to live in and have done tents etc. as well! I have been looking in to all this for about two years. I will have the money to be able to buy a boat and mooring fees in Wales for at least two years. Mooring fees are as much an expense as a boat in my opinion! I read an article a while back saying that securing a mooring is the first thing to get sorted, not the last. I often find that all the other bits of such a jigsaw-puzzle follow, if such a large chunk is completed first! The obvious thing being that there will always be boats for sail on mooring sites? It follows that if you are showing such a level of commitment, one may be taken more seriously as well. Anyway I will maybe open a new thread charting my thoughts on this and asking questions. One small detail I have noticed about small boat living: Maybe it is not so much the length of the craft, but the width? It appears that the 'cat-swinging' room can be considerably different with a 10ft beam!

 

[Wansworth]

27 foot Vega good for two tidy people or one a bit untidy,lived on a 15 footer one summer,but being young irons outproblems

 

[LittleSister]

Mooring fees are as much an expense as a boat in my opinion!

Marina fees are likely more than the boat costs (purchase and maintenance) over a few years.

 

[ross84]

Marina fees are the major concern really otherwise I wouldn't hesitate to buy a 32ft. Here in Liverpool city, the diff between a 26 and a 32 per month is about 55 pounds. That is 660 per year so it isn't a massive amount of money but it isn't (for me) small change either. Maybe I will compromise by buying a 29er.

You are right about the width too - so far I think I've settled on buying a Sadler - either a 26, 29 or 32. They're quite spacious down below given their shape, but when you look at something like a Colvic Watson 32 - you realise length isn't everything. I would rather live on a Watson of course but I guess comparing them to a Sadler isn't quite fair.

Give we're in the 'same boat' what sort of craft have you been looking at? I'm interested in Nic 26's (and the 32's look great too), plus Albin Vegas, Westerly's and of course the Sadlers - which to me seem like the best option given their reputation, sea keeping but livability too.

Do you know how to sail? That's the main thing which is between me and buying a boat

 

[Virgo58]

"Woz he pushed, or did he jump!?"......that could be a question asked at my future coroners inquiry.
Back to the present. I've had enough of it all. Sixty years old....clever in many ways but stupid where it counts most, it seems. Had it all but failed to realised it. Lost it all, but still a fighter at heart. Currently living in a place I've grown to detest and want to head back to the freedom I could have embraced a while back, but didn't.
Like a hunted stag, I am heading for water. I have considered canals, but the limitations and possible future problems have sent me to thoughts of the sea.
Can I sail.......not really! However, there is nothing that I have put my mind to that I have not learned.....eventually. I have read lots of blogs, watched many Youtube things and decided that a boating life, at sea. is the answer to many things. I will open a new thread, with my thoughts, fears and ridiculously stupid questions in the next week. I will call it 'OMG...you want to live on a boat!?'
On the actual boat front: I have been looking at....in no real order and bearing in mind I have virtually no money.......Sabre 27, Jaguar 27, Macwester 26, Westerly Fulmer, Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 26, Dufour 29.....and the legendary Westerly Centaur. My preference is for a bilge keel craft that will allow me to go just about anywhere. I am looking at Wales as a base, but north west England and Scotland could be possible. I have traveled a lot in my life, so relocating is not really a problem.

 

[Kelpie]

I used to own a Vega and have also done a fairly long delivery trip on a Sadler 26 so I can compare those two.
The Sadler was nicely put together and behaved well under sail and power. But it is undeniably a smaller boat than the Vega. Partly this is because it's a foot shorter, but also the inner moulding and foam lining do reduce the amount of volume inside the hull. There is little cockpit locker space and some of the cabin lockers don't have the kind of space you would expect. I was surprised how much difference there was in internal space between the two boats, given how similar their overall dimensions are.