How small can a solid fuel stove be?

Interesting thread.

This is the bike guy.

The idea is fun, but ...
  • really small fires are hard to bank for the night
  • you can't use drift wood (high chlorine = corrosion and dioxin)
  • the mess - there are many reasons we don't use wood at home
  • Hard to make a safe, fire resistant area around the stove on a boat that would be large enough to meet any fire code
I'm just not seeing it.
 
I 'inherited' a Pascall Atkey ( Cowes ) 'Tansey' stove. Silly me, I sold it. I'll probably purchase a diesel-drip stove such as that shown above....

I have a cautionary tale to tell, if anyone can bear to read it.

Some years ago I 'stewarded' a Rival 34 for an absent friend. One night in deep, cold winter I was aboard on the mooring, cosy, with the Taylors diesel stove burning hot on the opposite bulkhead. About to snuggle down into my sleeping bag, I thought to take a final turn on deck and, as I swung feet off the berth, noticed a small device clipped on the opposite bookshelf. Its little screen was displaying numbers, and I couldn't make any sense of them. Anyway, I clambered on deck and, hanging on the shrouds as you do, marvelled at the brilliant stars and the clear, clean, sweet and cold fresh air.

Then the penny dropped!

Peering back down the companionway, I could peer through the stove's little glass door and at the bright yellow flame. Which ought to be blue....
I was weak in the legs, dopey and breathless, but realised I'd been breathing carbon monoxide below for some time. The numbers were on a little Carbon Monoxide meter a friend had fitted without explanation, and I'd forgotten it.

I got away with it - just - and was rather ill for weeks.

The problem, when I traced it later, was due to a rusted/corroded burner. It had part-crumbled such that the shape left distorted the flame-pattern into burning very inefficently hence the yellow flame.

I'd encourage owners of Taylors stoves, and other types, to have an 'MOT-type' maintenance inspection of their burners and not simply assume, as did I, that all was OK.
 
zoidberg said:
I 'inherited' a Pascall Atkey ( Cowes ) 'Tansey' stove. Silly me, I sold it. I'll probably purchase a diesel-drip stove such as that shown above....

I have a cautionary tale to tell, if anyone can bear to read it.

Some years ago I 'stewarded' a Rival 34 for an absent friend. One night in deep, cold winter I was aboard on the mooring, cosy, with the Taylors diesel stove burning hot on the opposite bulkhead. About to snuggle down into my sleeping bag, I thought to take a final turn on deck and, as I swung feet off the berth, noticed a small device clipped on the opposite bookshelf. Its little screen was displaying numbers, and I couldn't make any sense of them. Anyway, I clambered on deck and, hanging on the shrouds as you do, marvelled at the brilliant stars and the clear, clean, sweet and cold fresh air.

Then the penny dropped!

Peering back down the companionway, I could peer through the stove's little glass door and at the bright yellow flame. Which ought to be blue....
I was weak in the legs, dopey and breathless, but realised I'd been breathing carbon monoxide below for some time. The numbers were on a little Carbon Monoxide meter a friend had fitted without explanation, and I'd forgotten it.

I got away with it - just - and was rather ill for weeks.

The problem, when I traced it later, was due to a rusted/corroded burner. It had part-crumbled such that the shape left distorted the flame-pattern into burning very inefficently hence the yellow flame.

I'd encourage owners of Taylors stoves, and other types, to have an 'MOT-type' maintenance inspection of their burners and not simply assume, as did I, that all was OK.
Click to expand...
My friend had similar with his Benco..charcoal is far more deadly than diesel...these days cheap but noisy Co monitors are available...
 
thinwater said:
Interesting thread.

This is the bike guy.

The idea is fun, but ...
  • really small fires are hard to bank for the night
  • you can't use drift wood (high chlorine = corrosion and dioxin)
  • the mess - there are many reasons we don't use wood at home
  • Hard to make a safe, fire resistant area around the stove on a boat that would be large enough to meet any fire code
I'm just not seeing it.
Click to expand...
We burned drift wood successfully for years. 🙂
Plenty small wooden houses with stoves.
You worry too much.
 
I removed my minging, dirty Dickensen Alaska. It was not worth the poxy amount of heat it pitifully produced for the associated smell and dirt. And I had to repair the balsa core where the shitty flue leaked water. On the other hand, my Mikuni did give sterling service, dry heat distributed around the boat at the touch of a button. However spares are hard to find and I will replace it with a similar type.
 
NormanS said:
We burned drift wood successfully for years. 🙂
Plenty small wooden houses with stoves.
You worry too much.
Click to expand...

I recall in my youth

We had one stove in the house, we lived near Stirling, that burnt continuously (Welsh anthracite) as it produced hot water (for the washing machine, washing up and the weekly bath). We had no central heating but had another fire in the 'lounge'. It was lit early evening and must have gone out around midnight. The house was cold and especially so at breakfast time.

We all survived without heating the house, we (as Eric the Red pointed out) - had the right clothes and lots of blankets).

We not only worry too much - we are getting soft.

Now we have central heating, piped to every room and or we have air conditioning (reverse cycle) - no wonder there is global warming. Our new car has heated seats and a heated steering wheel - in Australia!! Many on this forum are of advancing years - how many lived in houses with central heating in 1950, or 1960.....???? The primary school I went to had no heating.

And now we want coal/wood/charcoal fires in our yachts - not because they are effective - but because they look nice.

Have a decent cockpit tent, fire up the BBQ, have dinner, go to bed. We also are guilty of being soft - we have a gas radiant heater, bought in a caravan shop, in the cockpit (and a gas boiler for hot water)


Posted by someone who moved to Australia (another option was Canada) partially because of its weather and the desire to sail 365.

Jonathan
 
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Neeves said:
. . . And now we want coal/wood/charcoal fires in our yachts - not because they are effective - but because they look nice.
Click to expand...

I'd like a solid fuel stove in my yacht, because they are (very) effective and they look (and feel) nice (and are silent).

I think the objections to solid fuel stoves are over-stated (but then, I was brought up with an open fire and have only today moved out of house with one and regret not having one in my new place), but each to his/her own.

In my experience, the key challenge is finding the space for one in a small yacht. You need th stove low down, a bit of space around it in all directions, and a clear run upwards above for the chimney that will exit somewhere on the deck where it won't be in the way or catch on sheets, etc. all the time. On a small boat that will typically involve sacrificing a berth or hanging locker.
 
NormanS said:
We burned drift wood successfully for years. 🙂
Plenty small wooden houses with stoves.
You worry too much.
Click to expand...

The math is a bit much to convert to drift wood and plastics, but ... https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es103686t

It turns out that an evening driftwood fire will produce as much dioxin as burning all of your household plastics, including PVC, for 2-4 months, depending on the size etc. If you check with the UK or US environmental departments or Google this you will find the same thing over and over. It is as bad as burning mixed plastics. The cause is the salt combining with smoke to form dioxin. Believe what you want. Like smoking, it's risk factors and odds. You might get cancer or give it to someone else, you might not. But you should not do this.

I've seen boilers eaten out by continuous use of high chlorine fuels in just a few years. In a thick cast iron stove the damamge would take a good while to become serious. In a thin stainless stack, not nearly as long. Again, your choice.

But you can Google all of this and find the same information. If you are with OK burning plastics, including vinyl, in your furnace, then go ahead. For those of you that would not burn PVC in your stove, now you know that drift wood is just as bad, both for the stove and for you.
 
Neeves said:
I recall in my youth

We had one stove in the house, we lived near Stirling, that burnt continuously (Welsh anthracite) as it produced hot water (for the washing machine, washing up and the weekly bath). We had no central heating but had another fire in the 'lounge'. It was lit early evening and must have gone out around midnight. The house was cold and especially so at breakfast time.

We all survived without heating the house, we (as Eric the Red pointed out) - had the right clothes and lots of blankets).

We not only worry too much - we are getting soft.

Now we have central heating, piped to every room and or we have air conditioning (reverse cycle) - no wonder there is global warming. Our new car has heated seats and a heated steering wheel - in Australia!! Many on this forum are of advancing years - how many lived in houses with central heating in 1950, or 1960.....???? The primary school I went to had no heating.

And now we want coal/wood/charcoal fires in our yachts - not because they are effective - but because they look nice.

Have a decent cockpit tent, fire up the BBQ, have dinner, go to bed. We also are guilty of being soft - we have a gas radiant heater, bought in a caravan shop, in the cockpit (and a gas boiler for hot water)


Posted by someone who moved to Australia (another option was Canada) partially because of its weather and the desire to sail 365.

Jonathan
Click to expand...
I for one oldy think that modern temperature controlled house is a real luxury. Worth every penny of cost. Many other trappings of modern life are impressive but to me climate control is real value. (especially airconditioning in house and car) The stories of stoves and heating in boats are great for my imagination (so cosy) but in reality I would never sail the boat or go on it when it is less than 20 degrees. ol'will
 
William_H said:
I for one oldy think that modern temperature controlled house is a real luxury. Worth every penny of cost. Many other trappings of modern life are impressive but to me climate control is real value. (especially airconditioning in house and car) The stories of stoves and heating in boats are great for my imagination (so cosy) but in reality I would never sail the boat or go on it when it is less than 20 degrees. ol'will
Click to expand...
I sympathise

But climate control of the interior of a house is, as you say - a luxury - it was effectively denied to everyone prior to, choose your date - say 1970. Prior to whichever date - houses for most were cold, or hot and work places similar.

We are lucky and now expect A/C in the car and both central heating and reverse cycle A/C in the home + two fridges and a freezer (2 cars in the garage and a couple more on the drive) - just think how many 'L' plates you see adorning state of the art BMs or Mercs - we are lucky and soft.

No wonder global warming is the topic it is - the people toiling in the world's 'Manchester' (aka China) also expect the same lucky and soft life (and they are (roughly) 25% of the world's population.

The desire to have an environmentally unfriendly solid fuel stove is not going to make an iota of difference.


thinwater said:
The math is a bit much to convert to drift wood and plastics, but ... https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es103686t

It turns out that an evening driftwood fire will produce as much dioxin as burning all of your household plastics, including PVC, for 2-4 months, depending on the size etc. If you check with the UK or US environmental departments or Google this you will find the same thing over and over. It is as bad as burning mixed plastics. The cause is the salt combining with smoke to form dioxin. Believe what you want. Like smoking, it's risk factors and odds. You might get cancer or give it to someone else, you might not. But you should not do this.

I've seen boilers eaten out by continuous use of high chlorine fuels in just a few years. In a thick cast iron stove the damamge would take a good while to become serious. In a thin stainless stack, not nearly as long. Again, your choice.

But you can Google all of this and find the same information. If you are with OK burning plastics, including vinyl, in your furnace, then go ahead. For those of you that would not burn PVC in your stove, now you know that drift wood is just as bad, both for the stove and for you.
Click to expand...

Thin water (nor Australians) obviously do not celebrate Guy Faulkes night (though many Australians (and Americans) would be sympathetic to Guy - when every scrap of spare wood, anything combustible, will be collected - and burnt.....

Or am I out of date?

Jonathan
 
I am a bit late to the party, but this topic speaks to me.

Heating on the boat is such an important topic when you're on the boat in the winter. You need to get warm when you're below, or you'll just be miserable. But the issue with diesel heaters is, as nice as they are, they need power, and generating enough power without running the engine or a generator, is tricky.

You maybe get away a day or two on battery power, but beyond that, you need a system that can keep up with the weather.

With a solid fuel stove, you have none of those problems though. I have been playing with the thought, especially since I have a taylor bulkhead diesel heater in the new boat, and I am playing with the thought of replacing it with something else. Either I get a diesel air heater (those chinese ones) or a solid fuel one. Not sure which route I will end up going with, but it'd be nice to not having to spend the winters in marinas because I need to rely on the shore power.

Still weighing the pros and cons.

OP, did you end up getting a solid fuel stove by now?
 
LittleSister said:
I'd like a solid fuel stove in my yacht, because they are (very) effective and they look (and feel) nice (and are silent).

I think the objections to solid fuel stoves are over-stated (but then, I was brought up with an open fire and have only today moved out of house with one and regret not having one in my new place), but each to his/her own.

In my experience, the key challenge is finding the space for one in a small yacht. You need th stove low down, a bit of space around it in all directions, and a clear run upwards above for the chimney that will exit somewhere on the deck where it won't be in the way or catch on sheets, etc. all the time. On a small boat that will typically involve sacrificing a berth or hanging locker.
Click to expand...
The first winter in Galicia I bought a Portuguese wood stove,cast top and bottom and sheet steel body.Bit of a battle rowing the dinghy with the stove and finding a place for it.The stovepipe went handily up the hole for the vent……burned drift wood it was like a sauna😂
 
I fitted a Pansy heater in my workshop. It was difficult to light, particularly with a wind blowing. I made a chimney cowl out of two discs of copper. Each was beaten into a bowl and fastened convex face to convex face half the flue diameter apart using spacers (the gap established by trial and error). Drilled a hole in the bottom bowl such that it fitted snugly over the flue and the breeze, from any direction, resulted in a brilliant draw thanks to the Venturi effect of the gap between the bowls.
 
It looks like a stove designed for use in a hot tent (one designed to have a chimney poked through it)

If you look for hot tent on YouTube, you'll get 100s of reviews
 
DangerousPirate the drip fed diesel heaters (see post #9) do not use any electricity so this may be an option for you
 
Ive been on a few friends boats that have taylors or similar and stoves. Even had a force 10 diesel heater on my own boat for 20 years but the same problem seems to happen with all of them, cold from the knees downwards yet lots of heat higher up.
Now have a chinaspacer which is approaching 6 years old and so easy to use, plus can have toasty feet :giggle:
 
Rappey said:
Ive been on a few friends boats that have taylors or similar and stoves. Even had a force 10 diesel heater on my own boat for 20 years but the same problem seems to happen with all of them, cold from the knees downwards yet lots of heat higher up.
Now have a chinaspacer which is approaching 6 years old and so easy to use, plus can have toasty feet :giggle:
Click to expand...
I have not noticed that problem with the Reflex, but our boat has three inches of insulation, which may be the difference. The combustion chamber on the Reflex is only an inch or so off floor height, but a lot of the heat is radiated via the chimney, so it may still be an issue on a fibreglass boat .

There are some heat-powered fans that are popular accessories for this type of stove. They sit on top of the stove or are attached to the chimney and will distribute the heat without needing any battery power, but I have never used one as we found the radiation alone was fine.

One extra feature that we loved on the Reflex was the hotplate. We could cook most meals while warming the boat without the hassle of propane or the moisture it releases.
 
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noelex said:
I have not noticed that problem with the Reflex, but our boat has three inches of insulation, which may be the difference. The combustion chamber on the Reflex is only an inch or so off floor height, but a lot of the heat is radiated via the chimney, so it may still be an issue on a fibreglass boat .

There are some heat-powered fans that are popular accessories for this type of stove. They sit on top of the stove or are attached to the chimney and will distribute the heat without needing any battery power, but I have never used one as we found the radiation alone was fine.
Click to expand...
Also deserves mentioning that the Refleks and similar stoves can be had with copper coil inside the combustion chamber, to which a series of convectors can be connected. This distributes the heat to where it is needed, as at foot level. A small pump circulates the water, which has very low power demand.
 
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