Can I live on a 26ft Vega/Nic/Contessa/Sadler?

[ross84]

Hi all,

I was looking at buying a narrowboat to live on, however a yacht is far more enticing, for as soon as I learned how to sail, I could be off on adventures! I have a budget of around 10k GBP, and understand the above mentioned boats are both seaworthy and affordable. However, one thing canal boats have is space, working fridges, showers, hot water, and heating. So my question is how much time/money would I need to have these things on a small yacht - Are the toilets/heads on these boats emptying out directly into the water? Because that is not allowed - or do have a central tank? Are marine/normal fridges difficult to install? And how about hot water and preferably a wood burner/some other form of heating? Finally, how about a shower? Does a yacht have a landline 'hookup' for electricity and water like narrowboats do?

Many thanks!
Ross

 

[sailaboutvic]

These are old and quite small boats so I doubt you find one with a black tank , although the on the shower front most will have a shower fitted and it not it wouldn't be too hard to fit one again shore power is most likely also fitted so are fridge but there will be compacted.
I think the real question you should ask your self is , can in live in a. Very small confined space , we live in a 42 foot boat and that's just about right for us the smallest we lived in is 38 foot thats the smallest we would. be happy in although we know many who live full time in a much smaller boat .

 

[ross84]

These are old and quite small boats so I doubt you find one with a black tank , although the on the shower front most will have a shower fitted and it not it wouldn't be too hard to fit one again shore power is most likely also fitted so are fridge but there will be compacted.
I think the real question you should ask your self is , can in live in a. Very small confined space , we live in a 42 foot boat and that's just about right for us the smallest we lived in is 38 foot thats the smallest we would. be happy in although we know many who live full time in a much smaller boat .

Hi there and thanks for replying.

I can spend some time in the parents house and likewise store things there. I've lived in tents and don't mind small spaces. I'm single no kids.

Is humidity a problem with living aboad? Failing having no black tank (for waste?), I'd be using the marina facilities or buying a portaloo I guess (people go swimming in the marina so no waste water is allowed to be put out).

Do yachts have gas powered immersion heaters? I think if I could have a fridge for cold drinks, a hot shower and somewhere to go the toilet without trekking across the marina, I'd be pretty happy.

 

[[3889]]

There are people on these forums who have sailed around the world as couples in similar size boats. Being somewhere warm is a huge advantage, though. You don't say where you are but if in the UK it will be more of a challenge than a pleasure, especially in winter, regardless of power, toilet, refrigeration and showering facilities.

 

[PlanB]

Where were you thinking of keeping it - marinas charge fees but have showers and toilets, electricity and water. A mooring would be a different proposition altogether.

 

[maby]

26 foot is definitely "small" - our first "serious" boat was a 26 footer and I don't think I could have comfortably lived on it full time. Others around here will disagree - only you can really judge whether or not you could comfortably live permanently in something around the size of a medium caravan.

In answer to your other questions - most yachts of 26 foot or more will have a shorepower connection that will power the battery charger, an immersion heater for hot water and a few 13A sockets - though the number of sockets is likely to be small. Heating may be less common on boats that small - it is reasonably easy to install diesel powered hot air heating using a small Webasto, Eberspacher or one of the cheap Russian or Chinese copies. Others fit wood-burners, but there is limited space in a 26 footer for one of them - diesel air heaters can be fitted tucked away in a locker, but wood burners have to be in the cabin space. Also consider the storage of fuel - diesel is a far denser energy source than wood - a gallon of diesel will heat a small boat for days - the equivalent heat output of wood would be a lot more bulky.

Fridges are not particularly difficult to fit - most of the boats in the 26 foot range that I've been on had some kind of insulated cool-box and there are conversion kits available that can turn one into a small refridgerator. You don't say where you are intending to keep the boat - fridges are pretty heavy on power and will kill your battery bank quickly if you are not in a marina, hooked up to shorepower.

Small boats are generally pretty limited where it comes to showers. Our 42 footer has a dedicated, full-size shower cubicle, but that is a lot of floor space to set aside in a 26 footer. I have seen a few small boats that double up the toilet with the shower cubicle - but that is not very convenient - when you shower, you have to remove everything from the toilet cubicle otherwise your towels and loo paper get soaked.

You need to think carefully about the value of a shower in a 26 foot boat. Your water storage is going to be limited and you will be dependent on shorepower to heat the water. Most marinas have decent shower facilities - do you need one on the boat?

Sewage holding tanks are going to be rare on small boats - and anything large enough to be useful is going to be difficult to fit given the limited space on a 26 footer. Your statement that "emptying the toilet directly into the water is not allowed" would lead me to ask where you are expecting to keep the boat. Marinas and harbours don't like you to dump the sea toilet into the water - but they generally have toilets on the shore for boat owners, so you should not need a holding tank. If you are cruising off-shore, then a holding tank is not necessary and not of much use anyway because you either need to find a pump-out station, or you'll have to dump the tank contents every couple of days anyway. Since your alternative is a narrowboat, that makes me wonder if you are thinking of keeping the yacht on a canal. If that is the case, think carefully about the "air-draft" - canals have lots of low bridges and narrowboats are designed to get under them - all the 26 footers you mention have masts sticking up at least 20 feet, possibly more.

 

[DownWest]

Sounds like the OP is considering a boat on a waterway. Then, at some time in the future, off to the wide blue yonder.
A 26 ft boat can do it for one, full time. Or even two very close friends, The Trapper 27 I am fiddling with has just enough for two long term. Shower and loo (but direct to sea, so a no-no for him) Being on mains power would be the breaker for heat and fridge.

On the subject of loos, there has been a lot of comment over in the US on composting toilets, virtually all of it positive. Small enough for a 26ft too and, no holes in the hull. Google AirHead or search the wooden boat forum.

 

[ross84]

Hi all,

Thanks! I'd be putting it in Liverpool Marina - which has good facilities I understand. I can live in parents house too if it got too uncomfortable in winter. The idea was spending half my time on the boat at least, maybe more in warmer months.

Long-term I'd want to go cruising - maybe to Ireland, then around the UK, and then who knows? While it's a long way off, doing an ocean crossing is something that excites me. After that I'd live on the boat full-time. I've lived in tents before for month on end, so a boat would be a luxury for me.

But I understand doing a nine-to-five and coming back to a wet, cold damp boat with no hot water is just not realistic.... hence my questions. Good to hear different opinions. Useful so far. Many thanks!

 

[Crisby]

For that size and budget, you could also consider a Hunter Horizon 27. We had one many years ago and very spacious for the size as she had an open plan interior, we regularly spent winter nights on board with a small oil filled electric radiator keeping the cold at bay when in a marina. Ours was a twin keel version but sailed very well, several for sale on Apollo Duck at the moment asking around £12k.

Chris

 

[V1701]

Hi,

If you're in a marina with decent facilities don't worry about a shower, almost all marina liveaboards use marina facilities no matter what boat they have. You can use the sea toilet to pee but pooing in the marina is a no no. Or swap out the sea toilet for a porta potti, that's what I did on the Vega that I lived on happily for two years. Just make sure you can at least stand up in the main cabin, which you'll not be able to do in the Contessa 26 but you will easily in the Nic 26, e.g. (unless you're Michael Jordan). Don't get too hung up on makes/models, it limits your choice unnecessarily and you may well miss out on some good options. Most older fibreglass hulls should be fine, a bit of osmosis (blistering) on the hull isn't really a problem (and you'll get the boat cheaper). The key things are age and condition of engine/sails/standing rigging/bunk cushions and at least basic instruments like depth sounder & vhf radio. Go and see as many boats as you can to start to get an idea what you're looking at, try to look beyond the often poor presentation of older boats and if there's anyone you know who knows about boats take them with you if you can. Good luck & go for it, it's all very doable and a really good time to buy...

 

[nortada]

Hi,

If you're in a marina with decent facilities don't worry about a shower, almost all marina liveaboards use marina facilities no matter what boat they have. You can use the sea toilet to pee but pooing in the marina is a no no. Or swap out the sea toilet for a porta potti, that's what I did on the Vega that I lived on happily for two years. Just make sure you can at least stand up in the main cabin, which you'll not be able to do in the Contessa 26 but you will easily in the Nic 26, e.g. (unless you're Michael Jordan). Don't get too hung up on makes/models, it limits your choice unnecessarily and you may well miss out on some good options. Most older fibreglass hulls should be fine, a bit of osmosis (blistering) on the hull isn't really a problem (and you'll get the boat cheaper). The key things are age and condition of engine/sails/standing rigging/bunk cushions and at least basic instruments like depth sounder & vhf radio. Go and see as many boats as you can to start to get an idea what you're looking at, try to look beyond the often poor presentation of older boats and if there's anyone you know who knows about boats take them with you if you can. Good luck & go for it, it's all very doable and a really good time to buy...

Good advice

 

[V1701]

Very quick look on Apolloduck found this, e.g:

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/cobra-yachts-850/512395

Replacement of the old engine with a newer one is always a big plus. Re hot water, you'll have mains electric so just use a kettle. For heating, again if you have mains electric then an oil filled radiator or two, possibly a (dessicant type) dehumidifier as well. Electric blanket for winter and you're sorted. There are other heating & hot water options but honestly if you are in a marina I wouldn't worry about it...

 

[maby]

Hi all,

Thanks! I'd be putting it in Liverpool Marina - which has good facilities I understand. I can live in parents house too if it got too uncomfortable in winter. The idea was spending half my time on the boat at least, maybe more in warmer months.

Long-term I'd want to go cruising - maybe to Ireland, then around the UK, and then themed? While it's a long way off, doing an ocean crossing is something that excites me. After that I'd live on the boat full-time. I've lived in tents before for month on end, so a boat would be a luxury for me.

But I understand doing a nine-to-five and coming back to a wet, cold damp boat with no hot water is just not realistic.... hence my questions. Good to hear different opinions. Useful so far. Many thanks!

Well, it's a lot easier living on a 26 footer in a marina than it is on open water or anchored up some little inlet with no facilities. Do make some descrete enquiries about their attitude towards liveaboards before you commit a lot of money. Most marinas will have clauses in their rules that forbid liveaboard - usually specifying a maximum number of nights per year that you can sleep on the boat. Equally, most marinas turn a blind eye towards breaking that rule provided you make it easy for them to not notice you. Some are stricter and you would be wise to ask around and confirm that there are at least a few others that have successfully resided there for a period of more than a year.

If you are based in a decently equipped marina, then permament residence on a 26 footer is a more realistic prospect. The shower and sewage holding tank are less of a priority since the marina facilities should cover those requirements and heating is a lot easier given the availability of shorepower. A single fan heater should keep a 26 footer adequately warm in all but the coldest of weather. It would be more expensive to operate than a diesel air heater, but unless the boat comes with the diesel heater already fitted, you'll be looking at several hundreds of pounds to add one, so it would take quite a long time to pay for itself relative to the fan heater.

If you are living aboard throughout the winter, you will almost certainly need a dehumidifier to keep the interior adequately dry.

Do some detailed numbers for your running costs before commiting. Marina berths are not free - and the prices can be quite high in a decent marina. Liverpool is not going to be as expensive as the luxury south coast marinas, but you may be surprised at the price. Most marinas insist that all boats are covered by a pretty comprehensive insurance policy and, as a new sailor, you can expect to be charged several hundreds of pounds for that too. Boats need regular maintenance too - at least if you want them to be in a fit state to sail. All manner of little plants and animals will attach themselves to your hull within a very short time - they will not sink it, but they will make it impossible to sail as they clog the propellor and increase drag on the hull. It will need to be lifted out, scrubbed and given a new coat of anti-fouling paint every year or two. Assuming that you are young and fit, you should easily be able to do that yourself on a boat that size, but you'll still have to pay for the lift out and the materials.

 

[ross84]

Hi,

If you're in a marina with decent facilities don't worry about a shower, almost all marina liveaboards use marina facilities no matter what boat they have. You can use the sea toilet to pee but pooing in the marina is a no no. Or swap out the sea toilet for a porta potti, that's what I did on the Vega that I lived on happily for two years. Just make sure you can at least stand up in the main cabin, which you'll not be able to do in the Contessa 26 but you will easily in the Nic 26, e.g. (unless you're Michael Jordan). Don't get too hung up on makes/models, it limits your choice unnecessarily and you may well miss out on some good options. Most older fibreglass hulls should be fine, a bit of osmosis (blistering) on the hull isn't really a problem (and you'll get the boat cheaper). The key things are age and condition of engine/sails/standing rigging/bunk cushions and at least basic instruments like depth sounder & vhf radio. Go and see as many boats as you can to start to get an idea what you're looking at, try to look beyond the often poor presentation of older boats and if there's anyone you know who knows about boats take them with you if you can. Good luck & go for it, it's all very doable and a really good time to buy...

Thanks!

 

[Kelpie]

Good advice on here.
You need to think of the boat and the berth together- is it a viable package?
Your plans to use a marina berth and to have your parents as a backup option mean that you will absolutely fine on a small, basic boat. Use shore facilities as much as possible (showers, laundry, toilet, electricity) and the boat becomes a floating tent.
Living on a boat whilst sat at anchor somewhere is much, much harder- especially if you need to come and go every day for work.

Your £10k budget is ample. I saw someone advertising an Albin Vega the other day for under £3k! Loads of small, cheap boats out there. Maybe have a look at the 31ft Westerlies (Pentland, Renown, Longbow etc) because they are now falling into your sort of price range and offer a lot of boat for the money. But don't get fixated on particular models or 'must have' features.

If the boat you end up with has no fridge, you have a few options- in ascending order of price:
- Use a coolbox, and get someone to freeze blocks for you (your place of work? Your parents?)
- Buy a tabletop 240v domestic fridge for under £100, and run it off shorepower- if you have space on the boat
- Buy a self contained 12v fridge- the Chinese are now starting to make these at around £200, or you can get a more reputable one from Waeco for about double that
- Buy a marine fridge installation kit with compressor, plate, etc, and build it into a locker- this could cost £500+ but is the best option for long term life aboard once you get cruising.

 

[vyv_cox]

The huge advantage of the Sadler over the other 26 foot boats is the absence of condensation thanks to the double skin. Living on a conventional small boat in winter can be a very damp affair but with the Sadler condensation is almost eliminated. We lived on our 34 in Holland in winter for a time before we had diesel heating and it was a pleasant experience.

 

[doug748]

......
But I understand doing a nine-to-five and coming back to a wet, cold damp boat with no hot water is just not realistic.... hence my questions. Good to hear different opinions. Useful so far. Many thanks!

Good man, you seem to have your head screwed on. But it's something you really, really have to want to do, long term.

A girl was living on board a 32 footer next to me in the marina last year. Hearing her coming in from college at 5pm to a dark, basic, older boat was a bit dispiriting for me, let alone her. It was damm cold, ice on decks; what do you do with the 6 hours before going to bed? To be fair she stuck it out though.

The marina is not going to be less than 40 quid a week and could well be 60, or more, think on. I agree with the others you might look for something a bit larger but don't buy a wreck, you will almost certainly regret it.

 

[doug748]

The huge advantage of the Sadler over the other 26 foot boats is the absence of condensation thanks to the double skin....

Yep. My first reaction was that 10 grand would be too little to buy a 26 but I see there are quite a few around at that price now. Plus....:

https://www.theyachtmarket.com/boats_for_sale/1687995/

A fine boat design for that money. Handily placed for looking at ross84.

 

[ross84]

Thanks for the supportive responses. None of the usual negativity around; that's refreshing. All replies have been read and reflected on. Cheers!

Yep. My first reaction was that 10 grand would be too little to buy a
26 but I see there are quite a few around at that price now. Plus....:

https://www.theyachtmarket.com/boats_for_sale/1687995/

A fine boat design for that money. Handily placed for looking at ross84.

Great spot!!!

Actually some people I know are selling their SHE 31 for around 7,000k, which I understand is a solid bluewater boat.

As long as it can be sailed single handed, has some space down below, and is ocean-worthy, I'm not too fussy... is there a big difference in cost between a 26, a 29 and a 31 in terms of maintenance and berthing?

 

[maby]

...

As long as it can be sailed single handed, has some space down below, and is ocean-worthy, I'm not too fussy... is there a big difference in cost between a 26, a 29 and a 31 in terms of maintenance and berthing?

Assuming that you are willing to DIY the maintenance, then the bulk of your annual running costs will be the mooring fees and the cost of a lift-out and relaunch for maintenance. Unfortunately, those are usually charged by the foot (or metre these days). There are generally a few "break-points" in the price schedules based on the length - our boat is a 42 footer, but we pay a fair bit more than twice the price for a 21 footer because we come into a price band for larger boats. There's no hard and fast rule about the way prices are calculated at different marinas - you really have to get a copy of the price list for the marina you want to use.

On the subject of "ocean-worthy", many would say that a 26 footer is a bit small for genuine ocean crossing. People have certainly done it, but it is pretty demanding of a boat that small. Apart from safety questions, you have some practical issues storing enough provisions to keep you alive on a long non-stop passage. The ARC fleet sails from the Canary Islands to St. Lucia - just about the shortest passage from one side of the Atlantic to the Other - and the small boats take close to a month to get there. This is not to say that you should not buy a 26 footer - we had a lot of fun in one for our first couple of years of sailing, but we did limit ourselves to coast hopping. But if you do decide to graduate to sailing round the world, be prepared to upgrade to a larger boat.