Calor Gas bottle refilling

[saltylegs]

Quote "The pressure relief valves are set to relieve a "Bleve", which is rarer than an honest politician and requires the cylinder to be overfilled."Quote

Afraid not. the prv is to protect the cylinder from over pressure and thus will help prevent a BLEVE (boiling liquid expanding vapour explosion) over filling will not cause a BLEVE but if the cylinder is over filled to hydrulically full then a very slight rise in temperature will cause the PRV to operate.
And a BLEVE is not that rare I attended about 20 bleved cylinders in the last year, I say about because we never found all the cylinders.

 

[Bobobolinsky]

And a BLEVE is not that rare I attended about 20 bleved cylinders in the last year, I say about because we never found all the cylinders.

How many cylinders were involved, a bleve cannot occur in isolation. There has to be an impinging flame. If these were single cylinders, it was not a bleve, a bleve needs a huge heat input. There may have been a cylinder explosion, in a fire, but that is not the same as a bleve. Up to 2004 the HSE had only recorded 4 Bleves in the UK. In tests, it was found that tanks and cylinders had to be seriously tampered with in order to cause an explosion. e.g. relief valves partially closed.

 

[ffiill]

thanks Vic for the pointer to Rig A Mattress's post - I'd seen it as part of my research.


The point is that none of the quoted suppliers were (today) in any mood to sell anything which could connect bottle A to bottle B.

It's a supplier name in the SW I need.

BES has everything you need-a pair of flexible bottle pig tails connected to one another.
Perhaps you havnt got a copy of their catalogue.
BUT never ask about something like this as you are not supposed to do it in UK!
If you ask you will get "the party line"-cant do that!
You would be amazed at the adapters I have put together compliments of BES-to measure oil blower pressure in central heating;mains water pressure plus a variety of systems in boats and houses-fuel,water,refrigeration,gas etc..
They are also one of the few plumbers merchants who have a wide range of stainless;maleable iron;and not forgeting imperial -imperial to metric fittings.
Can see the point for ocean voyaging but I just use the small propanes on my boatlocally-easy to carry ashore spares in lockers etc despite their higher price per refill.

 

[saltylegs]

How many cylinders were involved, a bleve cannot occur in isolation. There has to be an impinging flame. If these were single cylinders, it was not a bleve, a bleve needs a huge heat input. There may have been a cylinder explosion, in a fire, but that is not the same as a bleve. Up to 2004 the HSE had only recorded 4 Bleves in the UK. In tests, it was found that tanks and cylinders had to be seriously tampered with in order to cause an explosion. e.g. relief valves partially closed.

A single cylinder can bleve it only needs a good heat source and a lot of these come about as the cylinders are incorrectly stored,are of mismatched sizes,stored on their sides and close to other fuels. On multi cylinder installations it is usually the good cylinder that bleves when the faulty cylinder flames and impinges on the "good" cylinder. I find that the HSE record gas tank incidents and not cylinders unless the total uncontrolled loss of product is in excess of 1/2 tonne,but I dont work directly for the HSE so am willing to be corrected on that.

 

[ffiill]

The easiest way is to swap your Butane cylinders for Propane. I've done this in the past but you'll have to go to a main dealer not an agent. You'll need a new regulator of course.

Beg to differ-I swop butane for propane refills;small bottles for big;clip on regulator bottles for screw on at garages;my local spar stockist etc.
I have never ever had to go to a main dealer for this service all be it that our local stockists in the Highlands tend to have stocks of all types to meet demand of tourists;business users;domestic cooking and heating etc.
I use propane because it doesnt freeze! having once had butane bottles freeze on my touring caravan when it was minus 10 outside and I needed the gas to heat the caravan-hotwater bottles and sleeping bags around the gas bottle in the gas locker and finally bought a length of hose and brought the bottle into the caravan!

 

[CalorGas]

Grrrrr!


I have been through the forum archives. Last year I bought from a local gas LPG man an adapter to fill from a 47Kg propane bottle (the big tall one) to a 4.5 Calor butane one (small blue one). The adapter has corroded from battery acid accidentally spilled on it.

Said LPG man has now become a solar panel installer.


Calor - definitely , Sir we are not allowed to sell you the adapters.

BES - definitely, Guv, we are not allowed ....

GasLow - definitely, Squire, no way...


Just who sells the adapters please, without trying to sell me an integrated refillable selfchecking automated turnoff aluminium glasssfibre reinforced stabilised bottle in four different colurs for 150 squids, please ?

Decanting LPG is a very hazardous operation where a liquid spill of only a few millilitres (mls) can lead to a sizeable flammable gas cloud, some 250 times as large, which is easily ignitable with potentially serious, if not fatal, consequences. Calor does not sell adaptors to the general public for good safety reasons as used by untrained people who are not aware of the hazards, could have very serious consequences for those involved and anyone nearby.

Butane has a much lower pressure than propane and cylinders containing butane can be safely used indoors in residential accommodation whereas propane cylinder cannot. More importantly, the safety device in a butane cylinder will not function correctly if filed with propane and as propane is less dense the cylinder could easily be overfilled as little or no safe ullage space will exist. Both situations override the safety features of butane cylinders and could lead to serious, if not fatal, consequences.

 

[Sionnach7]

Yesterday I convinced a Swedish gas supplier to fill my 11kg butane canisters with propane, despite their being more than a little wary about doing so. Nevertheless they had no difficulty in filling them once they actually sought about it and the cannisters also did not explode on the nerve-wrackingly bumpy car ride back to the caravan. I have since hooked one up and it is flowing through my Country Life oven to roast my potatoes as we speak.

 

[Heckler]

How many cylinders were involved, a bleve cannot occur in isolation. There has to be an impinging flame. If these were single cylinders, it was not a bleve, a bleve needs a huge heat input. There may have been a cylinder explosion, in a fire, but that is not the same as a bleve. Up to 2004 the HSE had only recorded 4 Bleves in the UK. In tests, it was found that tanks and cylinders had to be seriously tampered with in order to cause an explosion. e.g. relief valves partially closed.

The stupid doctor that drove a car in to building in Scotland a few years ago packed with gas bottles to blow it up thought that they were the same as supplied in his sorry country and didnt realise that PRVs are fitted to them in this country, the PRVs worked, they didnt blow up but they burned him good style! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Glasgow_Airport_attack

 

[Sandy]

Yesterday I convinced a Swedish gas supplier to fill my 11kg butane canisters with propane, despite their being more than a little wary about doing so. Nevertheless they had no difficulty in filling them once they actually sought about it and the cannisters also did not explode on the nerve-wrackingly bumpy car ride back to the caravan. I have since hooked one up and it is flowing through my Country Life oven to roast my potatoes as we speak.

Welcome to the forum, you do realise the last post was back in 2011?

 

[zoidberg]

Corollary:

I've no idea what The Good Shepherd is now using to heat his 'henhouse', or his Little House On The ( Exmoor ) Prairie, but I've been able to convince him recently that his boat cookery is perfectly viable using 'alcool a bruler'. Winter heating on board is likely to be provided by one form or another of diesel heater.

One might be forgiven for suspecting the tales, here, of the dire consequences of 'decanting' have put the fear of God into him. And 'accidents do happen'....

 

[sarabande]

To assuage Zoid's everlasting curiosity and devotion to forum archaeology...

I have a big 47kg propane bottle and a few little 6kg ones for lighting the Rayburn/woodburner, and the caravan.

The big 47kg costs £69 for a refill /exchange, the little 6kg ones £22. The POL bullnose connector was about £8.

Filling an empty 6kg from the 47kg monster at about £9 a time seems to be a Good Idea. The transfer is quick and easy (with a bit of care when handling the big bottle), and takes about 15 mins from start to finish. All done in the open air on the side of a hill, so purging the connector tube at the beginning and end of the process means all the propane gas wanders downhill.

I really do commend the process as an easy, very satisfying and very economical way of filling the smaller bottles, and similar kit is available for butane. A set of redundant bathroom scales is also useful to avoid overfilling.

 

[Sybarite]

I understand that 'Propane' is mostly a propane/butane blend that varies according to the climate of the country it is sold in - to control the pressure.
But, I see Camping Gaz and Calor Gas are also blends. (I thought they were butane, but I've just read the Wiki.)
Does anyone know more about this?
Does 'Butane' vary by country?
Is Camping Gaz a similar blend to Calor?
Etc, etc

Calor supply both butane (denser) and propane . Standard cylinder sizes used to be 32lbs (butane) and 28lbs (propane). Propane has a lower freezing point. Each had distinct regulators which were not interchangeable.

From the dim and distant past when we used to have a Calor gas franchise in the family business.

 

[VicS]

Calor supply both butane (denser) and propane . Standard cylinder sizes used to be 32lbs (butane) and 28lbs (propane). Propane has a lower freezing point. Each had distinct regulators which were not interchangeable.

From the dim and distant past when we used to have a Calor gas franchise in the family business.

The freezing points are of no concern. The boiling points are of interest though being -1C for n-butane and -42C for propane, which means that butane becomes unusable as the temperature falls towards zero whereas propane remains usable at all temperatures that most of us will encounter.

 

[Sandy]

The freezing points are of no concern.

They are if you are trying to cook breakfast with ice on the deck and need to leave the confines of your warm bunk for that first cup of tea.

 

[GHA]

They are if you are trying to cook breakfast with ice on the deck and need to leave the confines of your warm bunk for that first cup of tea.

Butane freezes at -140C, must be bit nippy where you are

Maybe boiling point....?