Calor 4.5 Butane and 3.5 Propane to be discontinued

[VicS]

Experienced boater but novice when it comes to gas. Maybe some of the more knowledgeable people here can advise me.

Presently have 4.5kg Calor butane, thinking of changing to 6 or11kg Flogas propane.

Is it OK and safe to use propane with a gas hob/grill that presently runs on butane? I understand a new 37mbar reg would be needed.

Reason I would like to change to propane is that I am thinking about an LPG (which is propane I believe) generator as standby for my solar powered boat. I think this would be preferable to petrol.

Does this make sense?

Most modern stoves can run on butane or propane if you use a 30mb (dual fuel) regulator. Not a 37mb one. People's experiences suggest that older ones will as well. A standard butane regulator probably won't be suitable to connect to the much higher pressure propane supply.
The name plate on the cooker should state what gas(es) it can run on.
By careful planning of the plumbing you can construct a system which can fairly easily be adapted for propane, butane or Camping gas, simply by using different cylinder adapters or pig tails.

 

[Alan S]

Thanks Vic. I mentioned 37mb reg as it said this on the Flogas website:
"Takes a 37mbar Screw Fit Regulator"
I suppose that's different from "must be used with..."

 

[VicS]

Thanks Vic. I mentioned 37mb reg as it said this on the Flogas website:
"Takes a 37mbar Screw Fit Regulator"
I suppose that's different from "must be used with..."

37mb is the pressure for an appliance designed to be used on propane , not for an appliance designed for use on butane.

 

[cpedw]

Reason I would like to change to propane is that I am thinking about an LPG (which is propane I believe) generator as standby for my solar powered boat. I think this would be preferable to petrol.

Does this make sense?

LPG is not just propane but a mixture including butane and other hydrocarbons. Will your LPG generator run on propane or will the cooker be happy with LPG?

 

[Stemar]

So do people think dealers will take an empty 4.5 calor gas bottle (if its in good nick) if you buy a R907 in return - and give any credit/discount for it?

From the Calor website:
Please contact your local Calor Centre who will arrange collection and a refund. If you have your Cylinder Refill Agreement paperwork you will receive a 25-70% refund of the original CRA cost depending on how many years ago you purchased the gas bottle.

How many of us ever had that paperwork, or could lay our hands on it if we did?

I went to Socal, the Southampton supplier yesterday. According the to the guy there, our boaty sized bottles are definitely discontinued. He's not happy either, because he sold a lot of refills.

 

[oldgit]

out of the 6 or seven boats with gas over the past decades not a single one ever came with a gas agreement.....and suspect Calor are relying on that, to not go bankrupt.
A case even for ones MP ?
A question in Parliament perhaps.
Got to be 10K calor gas users out there somewhere ?

 

[StefanSG]

out of the 6 or seven boats with gas over the past decades not a single one ever came with a gas agreement.....and suspect Calor are relying on that, to not go bankrupt.

Indeed. The monopoly arrangement has served Calor well over the years. I'm writing to my Lib Dem MP, who does actually reply !

SSG

 

[lustyd]

even if you have the paperwork, they've been silent long enough that nobody will get a meaningful refund. It's been 3 years since they offered new contracts on these bottles (or offered gas in them) so you're immediately down to 50% before trying. The bottle is worth more than that on the for sale forum here, as Paul showed recently, getting £20 for one.

 

[snowbird30ds]

They're not worth anything now as everyone knows they are just a paperweight now they are not going to get filled.

 

[SandyP]

Calor etc are shooting themselves in the foot

I managed to get a spare 3.9 the other day from the marina, last one. But I'm ok now for months

However, with boats changing to lithium batteries, electric coming and water is becoming viable and avoids all manner of complications with having gas
Surely their days are nmbered

Sorry

Electric cooking and water heating becoming viable

Tablet autocorrect !
For some reason I cannot edit my post

 

[SandyP]

I am not keen to home refill 4.5 Butane, but will not rule it out just yet. I can fit a 4.5 in the vented gas locker, but the next size up (7kg) is unlikely to fit. A change to 3.9 propane is an option, but not sure how available these refills are either. How long will it take to do the Sunday roast in an air frier, and how long will I need to run the engine to provide the leccy

3.9 propane is also being discontinued

 

[lustyd]

Electric cooking and water heating becoming viable

Diesel electric cooking and heating have always been viable, just very unpopular in anchorages. Even with solar panels making the boat look pretty, diesel electric cooking is still going to be unpopular in anchorages. For an overnight on the weekend starting with a hot water tank already full you may not need to start the engine or genny, but very few people have the space on board or the money to consider sustainable electric cooking or water heating without diesel.

It's interesting following some of the "sustainable off grid" sailing channels on marinetraffic - they spend half their time at fuel docks!

 

[DanTribe]

I thought I had a solution. My gas locker is a removable unit sitting below a cockpit seat. I could cut the bottom out and glass in an extra depth to allow a 7kg bottle. But this may take the bottom close to or below waterline, so drainage could be problem. Needs careful measurement.

 

[Martin_J]

I thought I had a solution. My gas locker is a removable unit sitting below a cockpit seat. I could cut the bottom out and glass in an extra depth to allow a 7kg bottle. But this may take the bottom close to or below waterline, so drainage could be problem. Needs careful measurement.

At least you thought about height above water for the drain before cutting the bottoms out.

And hopefully reminded others of the fact as well.

 

[davidmh]

This thread seems to be about whether Calor has a duty to continue with the 4,5 kilo gas bottle that is fitted to SOME leisure boats. Calor is a commercial operation and it will only make items that are commercially viable. Leisure boats are a very small part of there market, and many boats use the bigger Calor bottles or the smaller camping gas 907 bottles. Gas bottles on boats are usually in a closed vented compartment or else in the open on deck, and it is only some of the closed compartment bottles that are a problem with using the larger bottles. Calor is only available in the UK and many yachts going to Europe have adaptor pipes so they can use Camping Gaz which is widely available in Europe and the UK. Camping gas is more expensive but the extra cost on and annual basis is very small in relation to the annual running costs of a boat.

Looking at the Flogas website the 4,5 bottle is hidden well down the list and the bottles look old, they have a 5 kg bottle with is at the top of the list, and could replace the 4.5 bottle. but is fatter and taller than the 4.5kg. Flogas may only be a temporary solution. The easiest solution is the fit the larger Calor bottle if you can or convert to Camping Gas 907 and have no problems getting refills in Europe.
To those on forum who are based in Europe how does the cost of a Camping Gas 907 bottle compare with the 4.5 bottle from European suppliers? Is it still much more expensive to use camping gas?

David MH

 

[Chris CJ]

I paid £40.75 for a exchange 907 on Saturday ( yes the de rusted and cleaned up bottle that had been refused for exchange earlier in the week)
I was rather pleased with the outcome …not necessarily the price
Chris

 

[lustyd]

Looking at the Flogas website the 4,5 bottle is hidden well down the list and the bottles look old, they have a 5 kg bottle with is at the top of the list, and could replace the 4.5 bottle. but is fatter and taller than the 4.5kg. Flogas may only be a temporary solution. The easiest solution is the fit the larger Calor bottle if you can or convert to Camping Gas 907 and have no problems getting refills in Europe.

You certainly win the prize for weirdest conclusion. The 4.5 isn't hidden, it's on page two with default sorting. That's quite normal for web shops.
At this point I have no idea why you'd choose to reward Calor with further business. Can you explain why the supplier who we just demonstrated screwed their customers over for three years deserves your money and the one who has yet to do anything wrong doesn't?
It's not a religion, you're free to move

 

[riverliver]

Its their business decision to exit that market segment and pretty sure no MP will change that stance.
Where they are in the wrong I think is two fold - firstly just from an environmental point of view they should be organising a collection of the bottles which are now redundant. Their website says they will take returns. Has anyone tried them out?
Secondly as Lustyd pointed out ages ago they operate a virtual monopoly at marinas and other waterside suppliers. I believe they do this by supplying the bottle cage on terms that it is only used for their bottles. I doubt many suppliers will want the faff of a second cage and even then its probably uneconomic for flogas to pay for a new one without certainty of sales. Calor should be required to allow any bottle storage after the cage cost has been written down (say) 5 years from installation which would cover the vast majority of sites. If they don't care a toss about the customer base however then it aint gonna happen and car trips to off water suppliers becomes the order of the day. First world boater prob

 

[lustyd]

they operate a virtual monopoly at marinas and other waterside suppliers. I believe they do this by supplying the bottle cage on terms that it is only used for their bottles. I doubt many suppliers will want the faff of a second cage and even then its probably uneconomic for flogas to pay for a new one without certainty of sales. Calor should be required to allow any bottle storage after the cage cost has been written down

Agree. It would be good if there were some kind of organisation to fight for a better solution on our behalf (RYA!!) or a publication to shine light on this problem (PBO, YM!!!). The inland waterways people have started a monopoly charge against Calor, the most I've seen in the cruising community was the YM puff piece telling us all how poor old Calor was suffering at the hands of customers and couldn't supply gas.
I assume YBW.com will be reprinting the latest Calor statement shortly without anything useful to add but would be lovely if they spoke to some boat owners or marinas to properly explain the situation.

 

[riverliver]

interesting (but slightly old) release by NABO.
So seems anyone interested/annoyed enough should complain to the Competition and Markets Authority

Calor gas suppliers