Buying spanish reg boat uk resident help

[Flier2]

Hi people , i have read hundreds of articles posts etc - can anyone please give a difinitive answer
To this post as i am flying out shortly and about to arrange survey etc

i am a uk resident buying a spanish registered
Used Boat and keeping the boat in spain but living in the uk for 10 months -

Do i need to pay any taxes at purchase and through the year?
I have the icc powerboat cert. Is that ok to use in this spanish registered boat?

I really would appreciate your help - cheers john

 

[Sea Devil]

I really don't know...,.. Buying a Spanish boat means all the VAT tax things are paid and unlike France there is no annual tax on the boat. The issued that remains is if you need a Spanish 'captain' certificate - and I really hope not.... Try contacting Alex - on the bottom of this page http://www.michaelbriant.com/spain_boat_rules.htm

best wishes

Michael

 

[Flier2]

Hi michael, appreciate your post , ive tried the chap you mentioned with no success - Im sure there must
Be many members who have first or second hand experience, hopefully they will be along shortly, cheers john

 

[Tranona]

No problem. Just ensure the seller deregisters it from the Spanish register and then register on the SSR. Do not leave it on the Spanish register. No restrictions on how you use it, nor are there any specific taxes unless you become resident in Spain. You are not obliged to have an ICC, but is sensible.

 

[Flier2]

Ta tragona, rereging seems fairly easy but i dont know why i would prefer to keep spanish reg. If at all possible?

 

[colind3782]

No problem. Just ensure the seller deregisters it from the Spanish register and then register on the SSR. Do not leave it on the Spanish register. No restrictions on how you use it, nor are there any specific taxes unless you become resident in Spain. You are not obliged to have an ICC, but is sensible.

+1
I bought my boat through Boatshed.com and the broker was great. No taxes to pay (payable by the seller) and no issues as long at it's deregistered in Spain and straight on to the SSR.

 

[Flier2]

+1
I bought my boat through Boatshed.com and the broker was great. No taxes to pay (payable by the seller) and no issues as long at it's deregistered in Spain and straight on to the SSR.

Cheers for replies - So the rule is spanish registered boat you have to pass their exams? Heres the quandry -
How do thethousands of tourists skipper spanish reg boats are there special rules? Cheers john

 

[Flier2]

Would appreciate answer to above if possible - If i have to reregister do i have to get a tonnage report
From a surveyor- if so ill get it as part of my survey, Cheers john

 

[PlanB]

If you put it on SSR you do not need a tonnage report.
Some years ago, the need for a foreign national but Spanish tax resident to register the boat in Spain after paying the matriculation tax was removed (mat tax still needs to be paid). But, if you have a Spanish registered boat, you need the Spanish qualifications.
As said above, register it on SSR to avoid all sorts of complications,

 

[macd]

If i have to reregister do i have to get a tonnage report
From a surveyor- if so ill get it as part of my survey, Cheers john

Absolutely not for SSR, as PlanB wrote. It's necessary only for Part 1 registration.

It's quite likely that your surveyor would be unable to do a tonnage report, anyway: they need to be specifically accredited. But, as said, it doesn't matter.

 

[colind3782]

Cheers for replies - So the rule is spanish registered boat you have to pass their exams? Heres the quandry -
How do thethousands of tourists skipper spanish reg boats are there special rules? Cheers john

Just get an ICC. If you have RYA Day Skipper, you automatically qualify for ICC.

However, If you leave it on the Spanish register you have to comply with the Spanish regs on safety equipment etc., which can be onerous. Of course, as it's Spanish now, most of it could come with the boat.

Mine was on the Spanish Lista 7, roughly equivalent to Part 1, but I decide to put her on the SSR to save a lot of hassle, not least the 12% tax on selling.

 

[Tranona]

Just to add to the advice above, if you leave it on the Spanish register, depending on the boat you may well find you are restricted to how you can use the boat. Absolutely no advantage in keeping it on the Spanish register - if fact, many Spanish people try hard to register their boats on the SSR to avoid the complexities of the Spanish register.

Very simple for you as a UK resident. Do it on line, pay the £25 and you get a valid document for 5 years.

 

[Flier2]

Thanks people, Really appreciate your help - Do you need actual spanish de- reg cert or copy of application in english as i imagine the spanish bearocracy is not going to be quick
Either way ill need vat reciept plus bill of sale in english is that correct.
Cheers john

 

[macd]

Do you need actual spanish de- reg cert or copy of application in english as i imagine the spanish bearocracy is not going to be quick
Either way ill need vat reciept plus bill of sale in english is that correct.

You'll need to visit this page: https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/ssr/ssr/

This is part of the the preamble on that page:
Please note that only individuals (not companies) can register with the SSR. If you are ordinarily resident in the UK, your vessel is less than 24 metres in length and it is not currently registered elsewhere (eg: with a foreign register or Part 1 of the UK Register)...

I've highlighted one part for obvious reasons. I doubt (but can't say for sure) that you don't need proof of Spanish de-registration, although you will need to declare that it is not registered elsewhere on pain of potential prosecution.

SSR is not a register of ownership (rather it's "a simple form of non-title registration"), so bill of sale and VAT are irrelevant.

In any dealings with the Spanish bearocracy, I suggest the use of a stout stick and a vicious dog. Or just play possum

 

[Flier2]

Thanks mac - Well another satisfied customer - thanks again john

 

[Tranona]

Thanks people, Really appreciate your help - Do you need actual spanish de- reg cert or copy of application in english as i imagine the spanish bearocracy is not going to be quick
Either way ill need vat reciept plus bill of sale in english is that correct.
Cheers john

You should get the deregistration certificate and bill of Sale but you may not get a VAT receipt. there will be no VAT on this transaction as it is between two private citizens. Because registration is compulsory for Spanish boats, owners have to show that VAT has been paid so the registration document is confirmation that no further VAT is due.

If you are buying through a broker they should arrange all the paperwork for you, but if you are buying privately direct from the owner you may wish to have a broker do the paperwork for the transaction.

 

[colind3782]

I could be wrong but I don't think you can be on the Spanish register without being a resident.

 

[Sea Devil]

I agree with all the posts that have been made but think a few are a little simplistic about a somewhat complicated international law issue.

if you own a Spanish Registered vessel, then you need Spanish 'captains' permits, which are hard to get as it is all in Spanish, in order to take it out of the port/marina. (The Spanish Authorities do not 'swop' with RYA qualifications which are non obligatory British qualifications, not issued by the UK government, and not really worth anything in international legal terms)

If you buy a Spanish registered boat you can, by just filling in a form on-line, register it on the British SSR (Small Ships Register) and then you can sail it in Spanish waters without any qualifications (like all Brits) and fly a British Ensign.

If you sell a UK registered boat (even one which used to be Spanish) to a Spanish person or an ex pat resident in Spain, the purchaser will have to pay 12% Matriculation Tax because it is now a non Spanish vessel.

If you register a boat that you have purchased anywhere in the world, as a British Ship (SSR) for £40 or thereabouts, you get by return of post, a bit of plasticised paper which confirms to interested non UK officials, that it is a British Ship and is sailed under the rules of the UK. (No rules except nationality!!!!!!) However part of the declarations you have to make for a SSR registration is that the boat is not registered with any other nation.

So that is catch 22 - if you cancel your Spanish registration of a Spanish boat then any Spanish or Spanish Resident, subsequent purchaser will have to pay 12% tax on top of the money they give you for the boat. If you keep Spanish registration you must pass their captains exams.

To check the above sentence as being 100% correct you really need to speak to a 'Gestoria' in Spain, which was why I was so cautious in my first posting on this tread.

If you are resident in the UK and just keep the boat in Spain then there can be no taxes involved. However if it is a Spanish registered vessel then you are obliged to have Spanish Captains papers to sail it............

A few people do both - tell a porky on the SSR register and get that bit of paper and only ever show that to the Spanish... When they come to sell the boat they destroy the SSR and only show the Spanish registration.. (I am not sure if there is an annual fee for Spanish registration or not)

Gestorias are really useful people to know and use, so try to find an English speaking one. If there is a way around 'catch 22' they will know it or know how to find out about it. To get them to enact the solution will involve a modest fee (in my experience very modest 20-30€ and they do all the paperwork for you (including driving licence - UK to Spanish) Useful Organisation.

fair winds

Michael

 

[Flier2]

Lol! Michael !!!!!
This thread is going to be so useful to many people now and in the future imho , cheers john

http://www.spainexpat.com/spain/information/the_gestor_gestoria/

 

[Flier2]

Update, i have been sent paperwork with last owner ( or so i thought). having deregistered the boat in
2013 and reregistered in holland i have the cert to prove. Through a bit of inspector cluseaux work i called
The bloke in belgium whos name was on the rereg in holland.
He did own the boat for a few years but sold it in 2013.
In the meantime i had asked the broker through itranslate ( fantastic app) for clarity.
He says the boat indeed was sold by belgium guy but the documents are with the capitaine maritama
For change of registration and he will forward to me when he gets them.
The chap in belgium also had another boat 150k. For sale at the same spanish brokers .

Fair play i quizzed him about the boat a few times and he mentioned that it was an old boat with old engines and he
Had some electrical issues.

Amazing what you can find out when your a nosey so and so - when you look at the situation written down
Ive got a funny feeling ill be moving on with my search,
Thanks for your knowledge folks- John