Buying advice for novice with aspirations

[Spuddy]

Just to muddy the waters, I wouldn't have a Centaur or any similar vintage Westerly as I prefer boats that are better sailors. One often hears remarks about old bilge keel tubs: "safe as houses, look after you in a blow etc." My interpretation is that they're heavy barges that make lots of leeway.
An aquaintance lived on a 17' boat for a while and I've lived on a Folkboat, so smaller works OK especially if just for a bolthole during the working week. There are lots of good sea boats below 30' to choose from - have a look at the exploits of those involved in the Jester Challenge
Ask yourself why you're leaning towards bilge keels. Can't see the point except for use on a mooring drying onto a hardish bottom.
I'd strongly suggest holding back from buying a boat yet. Join a club wherever you are based and offer yourself for crewing. Most boat owners are a bit like drug pushers: keen to introduce others to their addiction, so put yourself about and you'll get plenty of offers for a ride. Aim for jaunts on a range of boats in length and type.

 

[Kelpie]

If you're willing to rough it, and if you have good shoreside facilities, and you can get hime every weekend, then the boat really doesn't have to be big.
I've spent a fair bit of time using my Vega as somewhere to kip when it suited. And that was on a basic council pontoon with no shore facilities other than the pub. Never felt that lack of space was an issue, especially given I had the car as a 'shed'.

Don't try to narrow down to a particular make before you've started looking. Familiarise yourself with the likely contenders and keep an open mind. It's a bit like buying an old car, you might want a Golf but you wouldn't ignore a Focus if it was in better condition.

I would say you could just about get by with a 23ft boat in reasonable comfort. Leisure 23, Pageant, or similar will give more space than an Achilles. Going slightly larger, Centaurs and Vega are also great and plentiful (both have been around the world, Vegas have done some impressive high latitudes voyages, not that I'm biased or anything).
I've just spent a week on a mate's Sadler 26 and it was a great wee boat, a bit cramped for the two of us but no problem for one. Somewhat higer prices on these.

A last note on trailerablity: something like the Sadler or a Vega is right at the top end of what can be legally trailed, and I did have a very nice road trailer for my Vega. It would have been pushing 3.5t all up, which is within reach for a Defender, Range Rover, Disco, and a few others. It was a good way to save yards fees and allowed me to keep the boat at home, but at that size the boat certainly isn't a trailer sailer, and I never attempted to float her on and off the trailer. I towed her the five miles to where everybody else's boats were, and had her craned in same as the rest of the yard.

 

[Stemar]

Another boat in the 24 ft range is the Snapdragon. the 24 and the 747 are similar at 24 ft and there are bigger ones. They're roomy bilge keelers with modest performance to windward, but go well off the wind. I reckon I could live happily on our 24 footer with time off for bad behaviour at the weekends. The Admiral and I have spent two weeks aboard without setting foot ashore on several occasions without divorce.

I'd expect to find a sound one in your price range, you may get lucky and find a bigger one - the 29 footer is cavernous.

 

[lpdsn]

Your plan B is the sensible option but I am not just looking to save money by living aboard. I really want to take this opportunity to get a boat learn how to sail and repair/renovate it myself. I see it as a kick start to future adventures.

Ok, but find out where in Dublin you'll be working first before committing anything to your plan. You'll need to check that you have a practical journey to work and back.

As I said, the city grew rapidly during the Celtic Tiger with little thought to public transport so you can't guarantee practical commuting to anywhere else in the city without a car and even with one you might find yourself leaving at 7am to beat the rush (plus there's no cheap parking I know of near any of the Dublin marinas). It all depends upon where you'll be working.

 

[SailAway1]

Just to muddy the waters, I wouldn't have a Centaur or any similar vintage Westerly as I prefer boats that are better sailors. One often hears remarks about old bilge keel tubs: "safe as houses, look after you in a blow etc." My interpretation is that they're heavy barges that make lots of leeway.
An aquaintance lived on a 17' boat for a while and I've lived on a Folkboat, so smaller works OK especially if just for a bolthole during the working week. There are lots of good sea boats below 30' to choose from - have a look at the exploits of those involved in the Jester Challenge
Ask yourself why you're leaning towards bilge keels. Can't see the point except for use on a mooring drying onto a hardish bottom.
I'd strongly suggest holding back from buying a boat yet. Join a club wherever you are based and offer yourself for crewing. Most boat owners are a bit like drug pushers: keen to introduce others to their addiction, so put yourself about and you'll get plenty of offers for a ride. Aim for jaunts on a range of boats in length and type.

I suppose the main reason people have recommended Centaurs is the fact that they seem an inexpensive live aboard. I really need to see one and hopefully get to go on one.
Again I think bilge keels due to the cheaper mooring costs. THe boat will be moored in the Merseyside area until I go to Ireland and afterwards it will come back to Merseyside.
I must admit I have been looking at sailing club websits in my local area and there are lots of them along the Mersey, Dee and Lancs coast. I will be going to look at a few very soon. I am starting to get a bit pushed for time now though. I basically have until the end of the year to buy a boat get it in order if required. Learn to sail it and complete the Day Skipper course.

 

[SailAway1]

If you're willing to rough it, and if you have good shoreside facilities, and you can get hime every weekend, then the boat really doesn't have to be big.
I've spent a fair bit of time using my Vega as somewhere to kip when it suited. And that was on a basic council pontoon with no shore facilities other than the pub. Never felt that lack of space was an issue, especially given I had the car as a 'shed'.

Don't try to narrow down to a particular make before you've started looking. Familiarise yourself with the likely contenders and keep an open mind. It's a bit like buying an old car, you might want a Golf but you wouldn't ignore a Focus if it was in better condition.

I would say you could just about get by with a 23ft boat in reasonable comfort. Leisure 23, Pageant, or similar will give more space than an Achilles. Going slightly larger, Centaurs and Vega are also great and plentiful (both have been around the world, Vegas have done some impressive high latitudes voyages, not that I'm biased or anything).
I've just spent a week on a mate's Sadler 26 and it was a great wee boat, a bit cramped for the two of us but no problem for one. Somewhat higer prices on these.

A last note on trailerablity: something like the Sadler or a Vega is right at the top end of what can be legally trailed, and I did have a very nice road trailer for my Vega. It would have been pushing 3.5t all up, which is within reach for a Defender, Range Rover, Disco, and a few others. It was a good way to save yards fees and allowed me to keep the boat at home, but at that size the boat certainly isn't a trailer sailer, and I never attempted to float her on and off the trailer. I towed her the five miles to where everybody else's boats were, and had her craned in same as the rest of the yard.

I must admit I don't mind roughing it a bit. I have often wild camped in Cumbria during winter snow storms. If you have the right equipment then its not so bad. I really wouldn't mind a smaller boat if it is good fun to sail and in good mechanical oreder. I would be especailly pleased if I could future proof my purchase and buy a boat that meets my aspirations. I.e. disappear for months on end sailing to other countries. I am not sure that my current budget would provide that. Thanks for recommending the Leisure 23 and Pageant I will certainly be looking out for any local ones and go check them out. As for the Sadler 26 and Vega the prices on Apollo are out of my price range. As for trailer sailers well I would have a problem storing the trailer when I took the boat to Ireland, also my current car is too small to tow and I will be carless once I work in Ireland anyway.

Another boat in the 24 ft range is the Snapdragon. the 24 and the 747 are similar at 24 ft and there are bigger ones. They're roomy bilge keelers with modest performance to windward, but go well off the wind. I reckon I could live happily on our 24 footer with time off for bad behaviour at the weekends. The Admiral and I have spent two weeks aboard without setting foot ashore on several occasions without divorce.

I'd expect to find a sound one in your price range, you may get lucky and find a bigger one - the 29 footer is cavernous.

Thanks I will certainly try and go see these boats too.

Ok, but find out where in Dublin you'll be working first before committing anything to your plan. You'll need to check that you have a practical journey to work and back.

As I said, the city grew rapidly during the Celtic Tiger with little thought to public transport so you can't guarantee practical commuting to anywhere else in the city without a car and even with one you might find yourself leaving at 7am to beat the rush (plus there's no cheap parking I know of near any of the Dublin marinas). It all depends upon where you'll be working.

I am actually not going to bring my car because I have done so much driving recently and I am totally fed up with it. Really it would be an unnecessary expensive luxury especially considering parking etc. Therefore I am hoping to use my bike if that is unfeasible then will have to go with public transport. I am not too sure of actual work location yet it could be on varios sites and will be working shifts including nights so can hopefully avoid rush hour chaos. Transport will be another thing for me to try out when I visit Dublin.

 

[MarcJ]

Our first boat was a 20 foot bilge keeler kept at Abersoch in the summer - it was £70 for a drying mooring April-October, then you have to move or lift it. Other options at Pwllheli and Porthmadog. Thought I'd mention it in case you hadn't looked that far south. Last winter we paid £250 for our 27ft long keeler for a trot mooring at Porthmadog instead of having it lifted out. We looked all over North Wales for the cheapest moorings - most are very similiar in price, Abersoch easily the cheapest for the summer, they run it as a charity. Good luck with the search!

 

[SailAway1]

Our first boat was a 20 foot bilge keeler kept at Abersoch in the summer - it was £70 for a drying mooring April-October, then you have to move or lift it. Other options at Pwllheli and Porthmadog. Thought I'd mention it in case you hadn't looked that far south. Last winter we paid £250 for our 27ft long keeler for a trot mooring at Porthmadog instead of having it lifted out. We looked all over North Wales for the cheapest moorings - most are very similiar in price, Abersoch easily the cheapest for the summer, they run it as a charity. Good luck with the search!

Thanks that would be a cheap option for me but it would be a bit far and I wouldn't go there to sail as much. But it is an option an a lovely part of the world too.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

The cost of the boat is likely to be of the same number of zeros as a year's berthing, so have a good look at the charging structures in likely marinas. Some have a banded tariff and you'd do well to buy something just under the band split. Some charge per whole metre, others pro rate it, so again, buying at or just under a whole number would be wise.

It's not advice that I'd stick to once I'd fallen for a particular boat, but thought I should mention it.

 

[SailAway1]

:encouragement:

The cost of the boat is likely to be of the same number of zeros as a year's berthing, so have a good look at the charging structures in likely marinas. Some have a banded tariff and you'd do well to buy something just under the band split. Some charge per whole metre, others pro rate it, so again, buying at or just under a whole number would be wise.

It's not advice that I'd stick to once I'd fallen for a particular boat, but thought I should mention it.

 

[Yellow Ballad]

Mk2-3 bilge keel Corribee, the head might be an issue but if you don't mind roughing it could be a cheap first boat (£1000-1500). (Check out sailing Kudu, young lad that lived on his in London). Don't forget the hassle selling your boat to buy the next one, buy right, buy once.

Personally I would save your cash and sail on other peoples boats, learn the ways for a year. Knuckle down, live cheap and save. You could spend 3k on a boat then another 3k+ (mooring, maintenance, kit, courses) in the first year, but save that 6k plus a bit of saving you could have a 10k budget in a year or so (that's what I did) (apart from finding and joining a club (wish I had found the club I'm at before)). It'll open up a bigger range of boats, but dont forget even a 20k boat will be a project to some degree, they all are. Plus you'll get to go sailing, get your foot in the clubs door (ideal for getting a cheap club mooring). Oh and visit lots of different clubs, you'll find one that feels right.

Won't really help with the liveaboard thing this year but a cheap room with bills inc would be better, I'm not sure I would want to live on my boat all year round.

 

[SailAway1]

I think I will head up to Lancaster one day next week. The Boatshed have a couple of boats mentioned in this thread. Just to have a look really and see if the model of boats can stay on my list. Could be a nice day in Lancaster it's a while since I have been

Westerly Centaur
http://lancashire.boatshed.com/westerly_centaur-boat-223720.html
Which seems expensive at £4750 for a project

Snapdragon 26
http://lancashire.boatshed.com/snapdragon_26-boat-225273.html
Another project at £2999 and open to offers seems more interesting since it has recent engine, head etc

Westerly Pageant £3500
http://lancashire.boatshed.com/westerly_pageant-boat-232212.html

 

[SailAway1]

Mk2-3 bilge keel Corribee, the head might be an issue but if you don't mind roughing it could be a cheap first boat (£1000-1500). (Check out sailing Kudu, young lad that lived on his in London). Don't forget the hassle selling your boat to buy the next one, buy right, buy once.

Personally I would save your cash and sail on other peoples boats, learn the ways for a year. Knuckle down, live cheap and save. You could spend 3k on a boat then another 3k+ (mooring, maintenance, kit, courses) in the first year, but save that 6k plus a bit of saving you could have a 10k budget in a year or so (that's what I did) (apart from finding and joining a club (wish I had found the club I'm at before)). It'll open up a bigger range of boats, but dont forget even a 20k boat will be a project to some degree, they all are. Plus you'll get to go sailing, get your foot in the clubs door (ideal for getting a cheap club mooring). Oh and visit lots of different clubs, you'll find one that feels right.

Won't really help with the liveaboard thing this year but a cheap room with bills inc would be better, I'm not sure I would want to live on my boat all year round.

I did initially think about Corribee, Achilles etc but other posts started to convince me to go for something a bit bigger. Thanks for your advice about clubs its definitely something I will do. As for the budget issues well if only that reminds me I forgot to check last nights euro millions