Buying a vat paid boat registered in Guernsey to UK

[Alicatt]

Post #1 does not say where the boat is located, post#3 says it is in the UK.

Does not change the substance of the problem which is ensuring that there is a clear paper trail that confirms its VAT status - either already existing or created in the course of the transaction.

It says "for sale in the UK" which is not the same as the saying the physical location of the boat is in the UK

There are plenty of boats "for sale in the UK" via broker and the location of the boat is Mallorca or some such

 

[Refueler]

I know I'm old and doddery...but I can't see where it says that...why is he going to view it in the CI then?

Post #3 ... 3 lines down.

What I do not read is - travel to CI .... nowhere does he mention travel to CI ... he just mentions long way to travel with no locations. He could be travelling from Scotland to Cornwall for all we know ??

 

[billskip]

Post #3 ... 3 lines down.

What I do not read is - travel to CI .... nowhere does he mention travel to CI ... he just mentions long way to travel with no locations. He could be travelling from Scotland to Cornwall for all we know ??

See my post 18...hindsight is a wonderful thing....

 

[doug748]

If the boat is not in Guernsey the OP had plenty of time to say so, particularly after post 2 which he warmly welcomed:

Post 2, we recall, alluded to the boat being out of the UK, several times, including:

"....so you will need to import the boat and pay VAT on entry." ".......This has always been the case for boats coming from the CIs"

OP responded:

"Hi Tranona,
Thankyou very much for getting back on this and it is along the lines of what we suspected"

Maybe the title was meant to have been:

BRINGING a vat paid boat registered in Guernsey to UK​

Instead of as written:

Buying a vat paid boat registered in Guernsey to UK​

.

 

[Ribtecer]

May be he doesn't want to pin point it's location until he secures the deal.

I wish him luck, I'd want a 20% discount or there or there abouts.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Maybe so, yes. Something isn’t adding up here, missing the info on the exact location of the boat now, and how /when it got there. Guernsey register may be a red herring.

 

[billskip]

May be he doesn't want to pin point it's location until he secures the deal.

Well saying its in UK or CI's is hardly pinpoint....it could jus be a simple case of a boat kept in uk under a CI flag.
Tranona makes it quit clear (and has done many times in the past) Flag/registration is nothing to do with VAT.

 

[Tranona]

Well saying its in UK or CI's is hardly pinpoint....it could jus be a simple case of a boat kept in uk under a CI flag.
Tranona makes it quit clear (and has done many times in the past) Flag/registration is nothing to do with VAT.

Just to add another possibility. A CI owned boat could quite legitimately be physically in the UK and not VAT paid under Temporary Admission rules. It can stay for 18 months renewable by leaving and returning if it stays in the ownership of a non resident.

Given that it is claimed the boat was originally in the UK and had VAT paid status, That status could be retained if it qualifies for RGR. If it does not - that is it changed ownership outside the UK, VAT must be paid on its current value or as an outside possibility depending on the owner's status, imported using Returning Resident Relief. If the latter it cannot be sold immediately on return.

 

[Irish Rover]

Given that it is claimed the boat was originally in the UK and had VAT paid status,

No such claim has been made. The OP just speculated that such may have been the case. This thread is going down the same route as the recent £500 deposit thread.

 

[Tranona]

No such claim has been made. The OP just speculated that such may have been the case. This thread is going down the same route as the recent £500 deposit thread.

Read post#1 again. If the "claim" had not been made in the opening paragraph, most of this thread would have been redundant as if RGR would not be possible. But the possibility was raised and it is important that the OP is aware of all the possible implications. It is also possible that the boat has always been in the UK and VAT paid even if owned by a CI resident.

The fact that the broker is advertising it as owned by a CI resident but claiming VAT Paid suggests that it is not straightforward. If it was then he would surely be able to answer the OPs question without hesitation.

 

[madabouttheboat]

I bet there are some brokers that do not fully understand the complexities of VAT status on boats. I for one would want answers to my VAT related questions before even going to view. It sounds like this broker either doesn't fully understand, or knows enough to know that although declared as VAT paid, there is a possibility it may not be.

 

[Ribtecer]

I bet there are some brokers that do not fully understand the complexities of VAT status on boats. I for one would want answers to my VAT related questions before even going to view. It sounds like this broker either doesn't fully understand, or knows enough to know that although declared as VAT paid, there is a possibility it may not be.

I suspect the later, hence if it were me I'd want a discount to cover or nearly cover the risk.

 

[B27]

Back in the day, some well-known CI registered boats were actually owned by limited companies
I think that meant that could not be SSR, had to be 'Part One'.
You could buy the boat by buying the company, wherever the boat is in the world at the time, its title doesn't change.

The broker might just be adverting an inc-VAT price the buyer would have to pay?
Anyone buying anything related to the CIs needs to be very clear if a deal is done, but firstly you need to know if it's the right boat.

 

[Gadget257]

Hijacking the thread slightly where the VAT status of a boat is unknown (e.g. paperwork lost) what is it calculated on? Original value as new or current value?

 

[Ribtecer]

Hijacking the thread slightly where the VAT status of a boat is unknown (e.g. paperwork lost) what is it calculated on? Original value as new or current value?

Current value surely, it's a transaction tax after all.

 

[Irish Rover]

Read post#1 again. If the "claim" had not been made in the opening paragraph, most of this thread would have been redundant as if RGR would not be possible. But the possibility was raised and it is important that the OP is aware of all the possible implications. It is also possible that the boat has always been in the UK and VAT paid even if owned by a CI resident.

The fact that the broker is advertising it as owned by a CI resident but claiming VAT Paid suggests that it is not straightforward. If it was then he would surely be able to answer the OPs question without hesitation.

This is what the OP said
"the boat could have potentially been a uk boat when new and vat paid then but not confirmed"
There is no "claim" there, it's just speculation. I do, however, agree with you that "most of this thread" is "redundant".

 

[st599]

Current value surely, it's a transaction tax after all.

The value of the transaction as deemed by HMRC. The transaction would include things like delivery costs.

 

[superheat6k]

As always Tranona advice on VAT is spot on.

Also as one of a very few on here who has actually been through the process of buying a boat in the CI and then going through the process with HMRC to pay the VAT I thought I would throw in my ha'peth worth.

I understand that once the boat has left the UK there is a time limit for the item to be brought back, which I think is 5 years, and has to be the same owner who exported it.

When I was looking I found several Corvette's in the CI of varying declared VAT paid or not status. At least two of these had lost their VAT paid status, even though the Brokers' view were that they were still VAT Paid, however various authorities provided dubious advice. So I contacted the small craft unit of HMRC, who accurately informed me of what was what. In the end I opted for a VAT un paid ever boat, so nothing was in doubt.

Attached is a write up of the process of actually paying the VAT, as this area is rarely mentioned.

Two points to note ...

1 Once you contact HMRC you will become a persistent blip on their radar. I received several follow up calls as I went through the process, even before I had committed to buy, so be aware that should you subsequently not import a boat, or should you have one with potentially dubious VAT Paid status do expect a follow up visit in person.

Indeed they did visit my boat, has a nice cup of tea and a chat, indeed I had aboard the entire UK small Craft staff for about 30 minutes, although the visit was cordial and no questions as to value etc were raised. (In fact it was at the time of SIBS so provided them a sound excuse to visit Southampton !)

2 To minimise your liability for VAT separate out any fees or costs spent offshore, including in my case the broker's fee (they were CI based). I received a purchase invoice based upon the net boat value after all CI expenditures were taken off, including hotel bills and reasonable subsistence costs in the CI and for two trips out there, for which I received an entirely separate bill, stil to the benefit of the vendor. You are under no liability to HMRC to pay VAT upon services received entirely in the CI.

Obviously your final boat invoice must be reasonable and reflect fairly the value of the boat itself.

This was duly declared and the 20% fee was paid, for which I received back a stamped and endorsed Bill of Sale, indeed they even laminated it for me.

Please also be aware my transaction was in 2015 and hence pre-Brexit, although i do not think the situation as fas the CI is concerned has changed re VAT rules.

Good luck in you search.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

I understand that once the boat has left the UK there is a time limit for the item to be brought back, which I think is 5 years, and has to be the same owner who exported it.

There used to be a 3 year time limit but no more. It is a requirement of EU membership and not something the UK government decided to do. The time limit has been waived for personal goods including pleasure craft. It will eventually get de-legislated as the UK government (and everyone else) consider it unfair.

Pay less import duty and VAT when re-importing goods to the UK

 

[dunedin]

There used to be a 3 year time limit but no more. It is a requirement of EU membership and not something the UK government decided to do. The time limit has been waived for personal goods including pleasure craft. It will eventually get de-legislated as the UK government (and everyone else) consider it unfair.

Pay less import duty and VAT when re-importing goods to the UK

Yes, a recent concession by HMRC to remove the 3 year “limit” - a success for the RYA and CA for their campaigning (not that anybody on here thinks the RYA does anything for cruising boat owners).