Bigplumbs
Well-Known Member
My total Budget is only £30ish K so not so much of a problem
Dennis
Dennis
Burton Waters Boat Sales
- Thread starter Bigplumbs
- Start date
Andy Bav
Well-Known Member
Understood Dennis. Bear in mind that we also bought a stock boat - so we had to abide by BWs requirements, a brokerage boat may be different.
Others with experience will know better but I would guess that, for a Brokerage boat, any deposit paid would be payable to BW in the first instance, who would then hold them in escrow until you are in a position to proceed to final completion - or pull out [with a justifiable reason]. I guess the ability to have any monies returned to you and under what scenarios is a key determinant to your decision to part with any money or not, and likely the motivator for your original post.
I know where you are coming from though, as with houses and cars the protocols are tried and tested, but for some reason - and we had the same feeling - there seems to be less trust in the boat buying process with a some horror stories.
Your main comfort would be that you are dealing with a UK company in the UK, and provided you have the right protections regarding the return of your cash, you should be fine. For me those protections should be clearly understood, and, where possible, documented. I think there is an industry standard brokerage form but whether that is worth the paper it is written on is another issue.
To be fair to BW, once we were through the awkward choreography phase of the deal, and it was "just" a question of arranging funds transfers, hand over dates etc, the atmosphere between us changed, and listening to what they were saying about the boat we were buying, we really did feel as though the whole process was a win-win.... and this on a P.Ex....
Good luck if you do proceed - there is plenty of the 2017 season to go...
hg2016
Well-Known Member
Ahh, yes but you're not buying a new car or a new boat are you.The boat is about 10 years old, used. I've bought lots and lots of second hand cars and never, never paid a refundable or any other deposit before a test drive. For a new car or new boat different story. For a new boat I would be happy to pay what was required. It just sounds like the marine world is a little less trusting than I would expect. Also, a good sales person knows a serious buyer when they see one.
I have heard of some horror stories where people have lost the deposit or felt obliged to buy the boat even though they were not happy with it after the trial due to performance.
One big problem with buying a boat inland is being limited to 5/7 knots. I would want the boat at WOT for 20 mins(more than happy to pay for the fuel) to check performance and temperatures. I'm not buying a boat with a clean hull that I'm told was doing 35knots last month and now it only does 25knots. No way and I don't want some sales guy trying to convince me otherwise and threatining my deposit. If it does what it says on the tin I'll buy it. If it doesn't I'll leave it.
Bigplumbs
Well-Known Member
My feelings also. Especially the bit about the inland boat. Now that is a real problem because you cant honestly expect them to move it to an area where you can go WOT but what do you do
Dennis
BruceK
Well-Known Member
I bought my boat from the Broads. The broker needed to get some sort of license / dispensation to take it up to WOT so it can be done at least there.
Andy Bav
Well-Known Member
There was a short stretch of the Trent where we did our WOT trials. Probably in about 30 second bursts. Not ideal, but it did highlight some issues, and when she was delivered we gave her a proper shakedown. So far all OK, but certainly was / is a bit of a gamble. That said, depending in the size of boat you are buying, it may be more easy to trailer by road to a sea trial area. If they want to get a sale, they will likely have the ability to oblige? Worth asking?
artisan
Member
BW can do a run at WOT on the canal -I think they have permissions to do this in order to sell the boats
Boat2016
Well-Known Member
It's your choice who you deal with and what terms they use but then that's the arrogance a lot of sales people are up against most of the time as there's always some halfwit who always knows best, if you don't agree with how the marine industry works then you are not obliged to buy a boat but when a broker is selling my boat he is not to deem it sold until a deposit is payed all subject to contract of course, so many dreamers say they will have something and then you never see them again, there must be some commitment from buyer to hold, it's up to buyer to research who they are dealing with to make sure their money is safe.
Bigplumbs
Well-Known Member
I just had a very nice chat on the phone with James at Burton Waters and he explained how it all works and I was greatly reassured. He also told me how they get over the whole getting up on the plane thing given they are an inland location and they have a method which I thought was very fair. I think I will be paying them a visit to have a look
Dennis
Dennis
Momac
Well-Known Member
My experience and that of others suggests the kad32 is tolerant of slow speed use. Some other engines are not.
I did have turbo repair on my present boat but that was as much age related and I think the boat must have been unused quite along time before I bought it.
My previous boat , a S23 with kad32, had no such issues. Despite long hours at river speed it performed as intended when asked.
The S23 I owned has just been sold again and has disappeared from its mooring at Farndon so I assume it has gone elsewhere . I wonder where it will turn up next . . Boats around here seem to be selling like hot cakes if the asking price is sensible .
I did have turbo repair on my present boat but that was as much age related and I think the boat must have been unused quite along time before I bought it.
My previous boat , a S23 with kad32, had no such issues. Despite long hours at river speed it performed as intended when asked.
The S23 I owned has just been sold again and has disappeared from its mooring at Farndon so I assume it has gone elsewhere . I wonder where it will turn up next . . Boats around here seem to be selling like hot cakes if the asking price is sensible .
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
I've carried out many trial at BW , it's totally against the rules of the River and canal trust and carries a massive fine .
In my opinion it's also very dangerous as you are very close to the bank at 25knots.
I'd be interested to hear there solution , at least on the broads companies can carry a trade plate speed limit exemption, thus isn't possible on the Trent or Fossdyke canal .
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
Correct , I was out with Broom boats yesterday on a trial , a call to broads authority with a license number and a display of plates is required but this must be carried out without annoying anyone else in the area .
hg2016
Well-Known Member
Halfwit you say. Oh no, not another keyboard warrior!
alt
Well-Known Member
It's funny how different things appear to operate in Ireland. Let me tell you a story of my latest purchase (now 5 yrs ago), a Cranchi Smeraldo 37.
She was on brokerage. Being Ireland, a small country, I managed to track down the owner.
Gave him a call and stated that I was only interested in direct private sale "no problem".
Asked the guy for a viewing "I'm busy, she's on the hard, go have a look". Went and had a look. Liked what I saw.
Fast forward a few weeks, boat is now back on the water. I was seriously interested and wanted a sea trial. "I'm busy, the keys are stored (x place), take her out for a run and let me know what you think" .... this was straight out on the Irish sea... talk about trust!
Again, liked what I saw, everything checked out. Called him back, negotiated a deal. Called his mortgage provider... paid them the remaining loan amount and transferred the remainder into his bank account. Called a transport company, put the boat on a low loader and delivered her to my home marina. Mortgage provider posted down paperwork once funds cleared.
So, yeah... viewed, sea trialed, purchased a 37ft sports cruiser without ever meeting the owner! 5 years later couldn't be happier. Previous owner and I shared the odd casual e-mail chat over the years. Hope he's keeping well... that's how you do business! Being a naive 25 year old, thought nothing of it. Being 'wiser' now, would I be so casual? Probably not. BUT, it all worked out.
Would LOVE to try that in the UK!!!
She was on brokerage. Being Ireland, a small country, I managed to track down the owner.
Gave him a call and stated that I was only interested in direct private sale "no problem".
Asked the guy for a viewing "I'm busy, she's on the hard, go have a look". Went and had a look. Liked what I saw.
Fast forward a few weeks, boat is now back on the water. I was seriously interested and wanted a sea trial. "I'm busy, the keys are stored (x place), take her out for a run and let me know what you think" .... this was straight out on the Irish sea... talk about trust!
Again, liked what I saw, everything checked out. Called him back, negotiated a deal. Called his mortgage provider... paid them the remaining loan amount and transferred the remainder into his bank account. Called a transport company, put the boat on a low loader and delivered her to my home marina. Mortgage provider posted down paperwork once funds cleared.
So, yeah... viewed, sea trialed, purchased a 37ft sports cruiser without ever meeting the owner! 5 years later couldn't be happier. Previous owner and I shared the odd casual e-mail chat over the years. Hope he's keeping well... that's how you do business! Being a naive 25 year old, thought nothing of it. Being 'wiser' now, would I be so casual? Probably not. BUT, it all worked out.
Would LOVE to try that in the UK!!!
[2068]
...
My only regret about buying Flower Power was that due to work commitments, I wasn't able to be on-board when she hit 31kts with 5ft clearance either side from the riverbank
hg2016
Well-Known Member
Agree, that's the way to do business. No chance in the UK though. To many people waiting to skim some cash of the top.
grumpy_o_g
Well-Known Member
Don't complain, apparently his boat is sold once you've paid the deposit. Which saves all that pesky mucking around with client accounts to transfer the balance I suppose.
Boat2016
Well-Known Member
A friend in UK tried to buy 3 different boats from an Irish broker only to find that all 3 had incomplete paperwork, this seems to be something that gets overlooked and then comes back to bite the seller on the a*** when not expecting it. That's why in the UK we do things different.
Going to the seller direct like you did is not how I would do business and not how I would expect to be treated either, that's why in the UK we have contracts that protect all party's involved. I do hope the broker got his fee as well after all it was him advertising the boat that sold it to you, he would have been out of pocket on the deal, very dishonest practice IMHO. I really do not get this grudge that people here have about those on the marine industry earning a living as that's what we all have to do isn't it? Seeing what I see here makes me glad I only have to deal with marine businesses as part of my hobby and so glad it's nothing to do with my day job.
Bigplumbs
Well-Known Member
On this forum it seems to me that some people put more store in what the paperwork is like than the actual boat. Very sad reflection on so many things these days. The world is sinking in paperwork people need to understand what is important. The joke with all this is that paperwork is so easily forged or 'created'
And personally I would rather work the Irish way than the English. They seem to have more fun
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Machaseo
Well-Known Member
I very recently had the displeasure of dealing with one UK broker who tried to sell me a boat that the owner didnt really want to sell, advised against a survey and when the survey came up with a wet hull tried every excuse in the book to discredit the surveyor and his equipment.
I signed a bill of sale and a contract which required a deposit however I never paid any deposit and I wasnt to pay the broker, I was to put all the money into the owners account once the boat was accepted, in this case the boat was rejected so I didnt pay.
The point is even dealing with a Supposedly reputable UK broker there are still some questionable practices kicking around.
I signed a bill of sale and a contract which required a deposit however I never paid any deposit and I wasnt to pay the broker, I was to put all the money into the owners account once the boat was accepted, in this case the boat was rejected so I didnt pay.
The point is even dealing with a Supposedly reputable UK broker there are still some questionable practices kicking around.
