Bring Back Small 2-strokes capaign!

[savsail]

two stroke v four stroke

I am with Dylan on this.
The only reason a lot of Seagulls are still around in my view is because they are 100 year old technology and most people get fed with them,and stick them in a shed or worse, take them to a boat jumble and flog them to some unsuspecting newbie.
There are alternatives, the Yamaha Malta is pretty bomb proof and a lot of them are still providing good service.
One promising development of two stokes was the Hooper design, checkout http://users.breathe.com/prhooper/opads.htm but nothing became of it.
If you consider the Evinrude ETEC, they are about the same weight as an equivalent four stroke anyway so there is no advantage on that front and so no point developing a smaller versions in their range.
There are many reasons why manufacturers wont do small two strokes the main one in my opinion is that, like Honda, why bother developing something new when you can stick an existing lawn mower engine on a drive leg and call it an outboard.

 

[aquaplane]

As with most things we seem to yo-yo from one extreme to the other. If you like 2-strokes, then that means you use a very oily Seagull O/B with a secret starting procedure and if you don't then you're entire life is devoid of any emissions.

I'm not saying lets ALL use 2-Stroke for EVERYTHING. I'm saying that in the 'diddy' market for tenders etc, where the amount of fuel used is minimal, and this used in a fairly modern-ish 2-stroke outboard that uses 50:1 or even 100:1 mix, they're the way to go.

Just because the engine oil taken out a 4-stroke isn't being dripped into the sea, doesn't mean it doesn't go somewhere and takes energy etc etc to dispose of / recycle (If it does actually end up being recycled). Not to mention the Oil filter which is likely to end up in the ground.

My 1 Litre of 2-stroke oil is so old you can't read the lettering on the bottle. That's how much my little Mariner uses.

Now before the 4-stroke 'ists start getting uppetty, I'm not saying All 4 Strokes are bad, just using the power of 'common sense' the environmental argument does not work with an outboard that uses minimal oil, minimal fuel in total and has no additional fluids / filters to dispose of.

Honestly, we focus and squeeze on tiny tiny emissions issues, ignoring common sense and generally just causing us additional hassle, whilst allowing ridiculous blatant energy waste across virtually every spectrum of our lives.

A bit of perspective is needed.

Radioactivity is bad? Well a big dose like Chernobyl was bad but a little dose like living in Cornwall we can live with.

Drugs are bad? 10 paracetamol because you want to end it all is bad, 2 because you have some pain you can live with.

Oil is bad? A big dose like Exxon Valdise is bad, very small amounts from a 2 stroke outboard with little use we can live with.

I wouldn't want a Seagull though.

 

[viago]

For the price its worth a look

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-4HP-O...neParts_SM&hash=item43ac8b3f25#ht_14336wt_945

very tempting at that price! only trouble is, i remember my very fast motorbike, a suzuki t500 twin 2 stroke, forgot to add the oil!!!.....back to honda
if charles read is correct that this gets 40% fewer miles than the equivalent 4 stroke then, pollution aside, £300 still buys a lot of fuel for a tender.
at half the price, weight seems to be less of a deciding factor, its the same weight as a tohatsu 3.5hp 4 stroke.
as far as pollution is concerned are we talking about air or water pollution? and if, as i imagine, it is air (my bike never dropped oil from the exhaust), how does that compare to a diesel car say?

 

[Lakesailor]

There is no solution to the argument.
Except of course that if you want a reasonably new motor you have to have a 4 stroke.

If you want to carry on using a stinky, noisy, polluting 2 stroke that you have to fiddle about mixing fuel for (this from people who find laying a motor down on one side rather than the other a trial) then an old 2 stroke is the jobby for you.

 

[Marsupial]

very tempting at that price! only trouble is, i remember my very fast motorbike, a suzuki t500 twin 2 stroke, forgot to add the oil!!!.....back to honda
if charles read is correct that this gets 40% fewer miles than the equivalent 4 stroke then, pollution aside, £300 still buys a lot of fuel for a tender.
at half the price, weight seems to be less of a deciding factor, its the same weight as a tohatsu 3.5hp 4 stroke.
as far as pollution is concerned are we talking about air or water pollution? and if, as i imagine, it is air (my bike never dropped oil from the exhaust), how does that compare to a diesel car say?

As far as I know the 2 stroke "ban" was proposed/enforced before the new 2 stroke oil technologies were available, modern 2 stroke oil burns very clean and I suspect 2 strokes are now cleaner than diesels.

I do know that diesel fumes are carcinogenic and add a few particulates and its a very lethal device, remove some of the particulates with a filter and things get a bit healthier but the fact remains that a small amount of clean burning 2 stroke oil vs diesel is a compulsive argument against the diesel.

As far as 2 stroke vs 4 stroke petrol is concerned I suspect there is not much in it as far as emissions are concerned on 100cc engines used intermittently.

The compelling argument for a 2 stroke is the simplicity of the machine for the marine environment.

I have yet to meet someone who is delighted with a 4 stroke outboard, the best is they say they are "OK".

 

[Lakesailor]

You've not met me, but I am delighted with 4 stroke outboards.
I have had four of them so far. 4hp and 5hp.
I've had five 2 strokes.

 

[dylanwinter]

I am delighted

As far as I know the 2 stroke "ban" was proposed/enforced before the new 2 stroke oil technologies were available, modern 2 stroke oil burns very clean and I suspect 2 strokes are now cleaner than diesels.

I do know that diesel fumes are carcinogenic and add a few particulates and its a very lethal device, remove some of the particulates with a filter and things get a bit healthier but the fact remains that a small amount of clean burning 2 stroke oil vs diesel is a compulsive argument against the diesel.

As far as 2 stroke vs 4 stroke petrol is concerned I suspect there is not much in it as far as emissions are concerned on 100cc engines used intermittently.

The compelling argument for a 2 stroke is the simplicity of the machine for the marine environment.

I have yet to meet someone who is delighted with a 4 stroke outboard, the best is they say they are "OK".

you have not me me either

but I am delighted with my four stroke Honda 2.3

yours

Spactacus

 

[rivonia]

You have not met me either and I hate my monster too heavy 4 stroke. It is only 4 hp but it is just too heavy. It is being seviced right now-€85.00!!

Peter

 

[neale]

You've not met me, but I am delighted with 4 stroke outboards.
I have had four of them so far. 4hp and 5hp.
I've had five 2 strokes.

Do you have to carry them far?

I agree that four storkes are great in many areas and an improvement over two strokes in just about everything except weight. For a permanently mounted engine or an engine on a yacht or displacement motorboat boat why would you choose anything else. But for a performance tender or for an engine that needs putting on and taking off every time you use it, the lighter weight of a two stroke outweighs all the benefits of the four stroke.

I have a 4hp Suzuki four stroke, a 3.3hp Mercury two stroke and a 9.8hp Tohatsu 2 stroke.

The 15kg 3.3 gets the dinghy going faster than the 4hp and is so light is is easy and safe to put on and off the dinghy from the bathing platform. The 27kg 4hp is very difficult to manhandle into a floating dinghy and due to its weight is slower than the 3.3. The 9.8hp also weighs 27kg so is also tricky to get on the tender from the bathing platform, but if I do it offers over twice the HP for the same weight and hence fantastic and fun performance.

When choosing an outboard to use, the four stroke rarely gets a look in.

 

[Kelpie]

Sounds like time for a poll...

 

[Fire99]

The 9.8hp also weighs 27kg

And here is a good point. 9.8hp 2-stroke 28kg. My Honda 10hp 4-Stroke - 42kg+ and is a pig of a thing to handle.

There will always be individual scenarios where 4-Strokes are 'better' and equally the same with 2-Strokes, which is my very point.

2-Strokes DO have their place and there is no genuine reason why small 2-strokes should be banned. The current regulation impact on Tender use will have had as near to zero positive impact on our environment as is conceivably possible.