Bring Back Small 2-strokes capaign!

VicS said:
But what about all the polluting oil they put into the water? :eek:

BTW the small Hondas are noisy because they are air cooled not because they are 4 strokes
I had ( well still have) an air cooled 2 stroke Volvo Penta outboard. It is noisier than the small Hondas, nearly as noisy as a Seagull!
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I only use about 5 litres of fuel in my malta each year and at 100/1 petrol oil mix I suspect not much.
 
justified

Boathook said:
I only use about 5 litres of fuel in my malta each year and at 100/1 petrol oil mix I suspect not much.
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I myself justify my shoplifting habit on the basis that it is small beer compared to the theft that is going on by the big insitutions

it is only small scale stuff such as shackles and split pins

but compared to Equitable Life....it amounts to not very much

Dylan
 
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Apparently 2 stroke outboards put oil from the leg into the water. What do 4 stroke outboards do?

My 2 stroke outboard is used for perhaps 1.5 hours running time per year. My recently purchased 2 stroke generator will run for 30-40 hours over the year.

Which device will produce more Pollutants and by how much.
Why is the generator allowed to be sold, but not the outboard?
 
dylanwinter said:
should the law be changed to allow two stokes again

for everyone and for every use?

should the ski boats be allowed to go back to two stroke?

what about the round Britain wallahs I met last year with their 30 foot ribs

should they be allowed to use two strokes?

just curious

Dylan

PWS... even puppies like four strokes


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz9twIavDI8
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TWO STROKES ARE STLL ALLOWED !!!

It is the emission regulations that that came into force in 2006 as part of the RCD that has effectively ruled out the use of small two stroke engines ( Inboards and outboards) to power recreational craft.

Direct fuel injection systems such as that used by Mercury and Mariner in their Optimax range and by Evinrude in their E-Tec range still allow the use of two stroke engines albeit only in larger engines (25 to 300 hp)

For water skiing the characteristics of a two stroke, ie its high acceleration, are preferred
 
It is not illegal to own and use a 2 stroke, it is illegal to distribute a non-compliant engine according to the regulations. There are some very competitively priced 2.5 to 4 hp Chinese engines on Fleabay, and the importer tells me they are certified. He will supply a cert when I buy the outboard!
 
pappaecho said:
Apparently 2 stroke outboards put oil from the leg into the water. What do 4 stroke outboards do?

My 2 stroke outboard is used for perhaps 1.5 hours running time per year. My recently purchased 2 stroke generator will run for 30-40 hours over the year.

Which device will produce more Pollutants and by how much.
Why is the generator allowed to be sold, but not the outboard?
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Two strokes put partly burnt oil from the fuel into the water along with the exhaust gasses.

There is no oil in the fuel used by 4 strokes!

The generator is allowed presumably because the emissions regulations causing all the stink over 2 strokes do not apply to generators . Only to the engine powering the boat ........ but maybe they do apply to generators on recreational boats if they have water cooled exhausts... a possibility best not investigated perhaps.
 
I know someone with a boat in Southern Ireland, he bought a new Mariner 5hp 2 stroke only a year or so ago; the dealer had seen what would happen, and bought in a large batch of these light 2 strokes.

Presumably legal there, I have no idea what the rules would be on buying one there and trying to import it.
 
Seajet said:
I know someone with a boat in Southern Ireland, he bought a new Mariner 5hp 2 stroke only a year or so ago; the dealer had seen what would happen, and bought in a large batch of these light 2 strokes.

Presumably legal there, I have no idea what the rules would be on buying one there and trying to import it.
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Presumably the RCD applies to Ireland.

If they were imported before Jan 2007 their sale in Ireland, and presumably anywhere else in the EU, will still be legal
 
As with most things we seem to yo-yo from one extreme to the other. If you like 2-strokes, then that means you use a very oily Seagull O/B with a secret starting procedure and if you don't then you're entire life is devoid of any emissions.

I'm not saying lets ALL use 2-Stroke for EVERYTHING. I'm saying that in the 'diddy' market for tenders etc, where the amount of fuel used is minimal, and this used in a fairly modern-ish 2-stroke outboard that uses 50:1 or even 100:1 mix, they're the way to go.

Just because the engine oil taken out a 4-stroke isn't being dripped into the sea, doesn't mean it doesn't go somewhere and takes energy etc etc to dispose of / recycle (If it does actually end up being recycled). Not to mention the Oil filter which is likely to end up in the ground.

My 1 Litre of 2-stroke oil is so old you can't read the lettering on the bottle. That's how much my little Mariner uses.

Now before the 4-stroke 'ists start getting uppetty, I'm not saying All 4 Strokes are bad, just using the power of 'common sense' the environmental argument does not work with an outboard that uses minimal oil, minimal fuel in total and has no additional fluids / filters to dispose of.

Honestly, we focus and squeeze on tiny tiny emissions issues, ignoring common sense and generally just causing us additional hassle, whilst allowing ridiculous blatant energy waste across virtually every spectrum of our lives.
 
Fire99 said:
My 1 Litre of 2-stroke oil is so old you can't read the lettering on the bottle. That's how much my little Mariner uses.
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Exactly the same - I bought a litre bottle in 2005 and there's still plenty left. I also (smugly) have a brand new but run-tested Tohatsu 3.5 2/s sitting ashore waiting for the hopefully long away day when my Mariner 3.5 dies. Bought it while I still could after picking up a 2.5 four-stroke Mercury and feeling the weight.
 
There is also the safety angle with inflicting heavy engines on tenders, from overloaded boats and people falling in while trying to lift the things on and off to back injuries, this is one law I think should have caused civil disobedience, vive le West Sussex Popular Front !
 
Yep, I wonder how many dodgy backs have needed treatment due to lugging these 4-stroke lumps around. Even my 'Co-Sailor's ' 2hp Honda is a bit of a slab compared to my Mariner.
 
Oh No the two stroke campaign again; I know that two strokes are a bit lighter and can be put down at any angle; but you can not ignore the reliability, economy, and the clean nature of the four stroke.
 
CAPTAIN FANTASTIC said:
Oh No the two stroke campaign again; I know that two strokes are a bit lighter and can be put down at any angle; but you can not ignore the reliability, economy, and the clean nature of the four stroke.
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Give over man. It's not a campaign. :) It's just some of us see things differently when it comes to 'diddler' outboards.

Economy?? My 2-stroke 2.5 probably uses more fuel from evaporation than it does in use. :)
With a little gentle tinkering, my Mariner starts 1st pull. (Unlike my friends 2hp Honda 4-T, I'll have you know)

Clean Nature?? I'm not convinced at the 'Tender' end of the market (We're not talking about larger motors used for propelling anything for a significant period of time)

Ooo hang on, this is turning into a campaign. :D
 
VicS said:
But what about all the polluting oil they put into the water? :eek:
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What I can never understand, is WHY marine engines, generally discharge their exhaust (and any polutants) under the water.

That concern would be addressed, if like a moped, they just had a simple exhaust discharging to the air.

I would love to know the logic (and unecessary complication) of mixing the cooling water and exhaust together and discharging both below the waterline.
 
CAPTAIN FANTASTIC said:
Oh No the two stroke campaign again; I know that two strokes are a bit lighter and can be put down at any angle; but you can not ignore the reliability, economy, and the clean nature of the four stroke.
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You're wasting your breath. I agree with you, but there again my outboards have been mounted and left on the boat.
Typically this weight penalty amounts to 5kg on a 20kg motor. There's probably more difference between different makes than different engine types.

As for noise. My Tohatsu 5hp 4 stroke is quieter than either my Tohatsu 3.5 2 stroke or the high pitched Evinrude 4hp twin that I had.

It starts 1st or 2nd pull.

It will also run at tickover or close for as long as I want it to.

I just pour in petrol.

Not very often.


What's not to like?
 
Fire99 said:
As with most things we seem to yo-yo from one extreme to the other. If you like 2-strokes, then that means you use a very oily Seagull O/B with a secret starting procedure and if you don't then you're entire life is devoid of any emissions.

I'm not saying lets ALL use 2-Stroke for EVERYTHING. I'm saying that in the 'diddy' market for tenders etc, where the amount of fuel used is minimal, and this used in a fairly modern-ish 2-stroke outboard that uses 50:1 or even 100:1 mix, they're the way to go.

Just because the engine oil taken out a 4-stroke isn't being dripped into the sea, doesn't mean it doesn't go somewhere and takes energy etc etc to dispose of / recycle (If it does actually end up being recycled). Not to mention the Oil filter which is likely to end up in the ground.

My 1 Litre of 2-stroke oil is so old you can't read the lettering on the bottle. That's how much my little Mariner uses.

Now before the 4-stroke 'ists start getting uppetty, I'm not saying All 4 Strokes are bad, just using the power of 'common sense' the environmental argument does not work with an outboard that uses minimal oil, minimal fuel in total and has no additional fluids / filters to dispose of.

Honestly, we focus and squeeze on tiny tiny emissions issues, ignoring common sense and generally just causing us additional hassle, whilst allowing ridiculous blatant energy waste across virtually every spectrum of our lives.
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Would you please stop writing such sensible posts.

Next thing you will have people agreeing with you.

And that would never do.
 
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