Brexit...Again.

[oldgit]

Overheard from / in conversation a reputable Marine Broker.

He contacted HMRC and politely asked why a yacht "should" have proof of VAT when crossing borders or when selling but when somebody crossing a border in a car possibly worth considerably more, accompanied by his significant other who likes expensive jewellery does not have to provide any proof whatsover.
Who ever he spoke to in HMRC , pointing out that they were not experts on VAT, told him they would get back regards this question within 10 days ?

 

[Irish Rover]

I don't imagine this thread will survive too long but, anyway, my tuppence worth. The person in HMRC should have told the caller "we don't make the rules, we implement them".

 

[oldgit]

Just for hors d'oeuvres , some debate about the word "should " and "must" .

 

[Irish Rover]

Just for hors d'oeuvres , some debate about the word "should " and "must" .

Should the horses devour or must the horses devour? I'd say they should.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Taking a vehicle out of the UK

You must take your vehicle log book (V5C) with you if you’re taking your vehicle abroad for less than 12 months. You may have to show it if you’re stopped at a port or while driving abroad.

UK law still applies to a UK-registered vehicle if you take it abroad for less than 12 months. That means you need to make sure:

• your vehicle is taxed in the UK while it’s abroad
• you have a current MOT
• you have UK insurance

You’ll also need to make sure you meet any international or national conditions for licensing and taxation.

 

[Tranona]

Nothing really to do with "Brexit". Lack of clarity on this subject has been around since the EU VAT regime was established in 1992. The lack of clarity arises because the EU directive is silent on the subject but individual state law may either be prescriptive or silent leaving space for "interpretation" often at a local level. The UK was in the "silent" category when in the EU and is still silent now it is a separate customs area.

This is very different from the regime in respect of cars where there are specific rules.

 

[oldgit]

Taking a vehicle out of the UK

But do you need a VAT receipt from where ever you bought the Velar and what happens if you are the 6th owner do you need paper proof it was on your drive on Exit Day

 

[oldgit]

Nothing really to do with "Brexit". Lack of clarity on this subject has been around since the EU VAT regime was established in 1992. The lack of clarity arises because the EU directive is silent on the subject but individual state law may either be prescriptive or silent leaving space for "interpretation" often at a local level. The UK was in the "silent" category when in the EU and is still silent now it is a separate customs area.

This is very different from the regime in respect of cars where there are specific rules.

If its nothing to do with Brexit why on my last trip to Dunkerque did I not feel the need to have aboard a VAT receipt for a boat but post Brexit am advised by the organisers of the 2025 trip to ensure that proof of VAT paid is in my documentation folder ?
HMRC need 10 days to explain something that you explained in 30 secs .

 

[westernman]

I am guessing that if you have the log book for the car is shows that everything is in order with respects to VAT.

In the UK, as a consumer, you do not have to worry about this.
If you buy a UK registered car, then either it is from an individual so no VAT. Or it is from a company, in which case they have to deal with the VAT.

In any case if you have the log book, VAT is not your problem.

Of course with a boat a UK registration certificate (SSR or Part I) does not prove anything.

A bill of sale to you as an individual resident in the UK from a private UK resident person or a UK registered company should be proof that you are OK with regards to VAT.

 

[Tranona]

But do you need a VAT receipt from where ever you bought the Velar and what happens if you are the 6th owner do you need paper proof it was on your drive on Exit Day

The difference between cars and boats is that the EU rules on VAT for boats are very specific in that VAT payment gives the boat a particular status that allows free circulation within the EU. That is the reason why owners are advised to have proof that VAT has been paid in an EU state, but it is not a legal requirement in many states (and the UK when it was in the EU). The responsibility for applying VAT rests clearly with the state where VAT was originally paid.

Cannot stress enough that this is different from cars so absolutely pointless trying to make comparisons.

 

[oldgit]

All understood.

 

[Tranona]

If its nothing to do with Brexit why on my last trip to Dunkerque did I not feel the need to have aboard a VAT receipt for a boat but post Brexit am advised by the organisers of the 2025 trip to ensure that proof of VAT paid is in my documentation folder.
HMRC need 10 days to explain something that you explained in 30 secs .

The "proof" would be for entry back into the UK to show that the boat is UK VAT paid - nothing to do with the EU who would not be interested. You do not "need" the VAT invoice, you only need to be able to show that the boat is considered UK VAT paid and having an invoice is one way of doing this - although it is actually not a very good way because a boat can lose its "status" since that payment was made. Indeed as soon as you left UK territorial waters on your way to Dunkirk the boat potentially lost its UK VAT status, but regained it on re-entry to the UK.

VAT is a transaction tax NOT an asset tax. It is levied on transactions from a VAT registered entity to a private person and on first entry into a customs area. When you entered Dunkirk the EU could levy VAT on your boat, but the VAT rules allow you as a non resident a period of 18 months before the VAT is payable. When you left the UK our rules allow you to return at any time in the future (used to be 3 years as it still is in the EU) using the Returned Goods Relief rules.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

But do you need a VAT receipt from where ever you bought the Velar and what happens if you are the 6th owner do you need paper proof it was on your drive on Exit Day

I guess for cars they assume it goes with wherever it is registered as the registration process for cars is mandatory .... UK registered cars become UK goods, and EU registered cars become EU goods regardless of location on Brexit day,

You don't need to show VAT status to travel to the EU .... just like the EU doesn't need to see a VAT receipt when you enter with your UK boat, the assumption is VAT in the EU is irrelevant and you enter under TA. For boats, because of the volumes involved, this is a paperwork process, but for cars, because thousands cross the border at the same point regularly, the paper process is waived, and the car effectively gets a TA by default because it is registered outside the EU.

Coming in the other direction, the fact that it has a UK registration lets it back in, effectively as "returning goods".

If it's a race car or a non-registered vehicle then a carnet is necessary.

 

[Alicatt]

I guess for cars they assume it goes with wherever it is registered as the registration process for cars is mandatory .... UK registered cars become UK goods, and EU registered cars become EU goods regardless of location on Brexit day,

You don't need to show VAT status to travel to the EU .... just like the EU doesn't need to see a VAT receipt when you enter with your UK boat, the assumption is VAT in the EU is irrelevant and you enter under TA. For boats, because of the volumes involved, this is a paperwork process, but for cars, because thousands cross the border at the same point regularly, the paper process is waived, and the car effectively gets a TA by default because it is registered outside the EU.

Coming in the other direction, the fact that it has a UK registration lets it back in, effectively as "returning goods".

If it's a race car or a non-registered vehicle then a carnet is necessary.

For B-Day importing my RRS to Belgium I did have to prove it was VAT paid in the UK, all I had was a screen shot of the sale from the dealer in Inverness but that was enough to get it accepted.

 

[Seastoke]

I recommend , you read a book called Unleashed . It gives the truths about brexit and the benefits. Now we voted 8 years ago . How many people are worse off .

 

[Poignard]

I recommend , you read a book called Unleashed . It gives the truths about brexit and the benefits. Now we voted 8 years ago . How many people are worse off .

"truths"?

In a book by Boris Johnson?