Bow rider to cuddy?

[Warpa]

We are not ready to change yet but am just curious as to what i can expect. As many may know we are on a 17' bowrider and have decided a cuddy of similar size. I would like to keep to 20' max, 18' if there are any?

Also as many of you have probably read my other posts, how much more seaworthy/comfort would be had? As stated i know the boat i have is more than capable, and by the end of the season i will be pushing the boat to its limits to se what it can take as opposed to me (i do this on every toy i buy)

We need a cuddy so she can have a erhem wee us boys can go over the side if needs be We would also like to have a night out even if its moored up, but obviously once we have done that, like my IOW trip the next step would be to sleep over there

Is it draft? that is talked about or displacement that will cope with the bigger waves? The slamming she will get used to, poor thing thinks the boat is going to break on the smallest wave...bless

 

[landlockedpirate]

Lots of cuddy's and bowriders are actually built on the same hull. Its the freeboard (height of sides) that makes a lot of the difference, they also weigh slightly more. The solid and higher front also allows the waves that come over the front to run off, rather than in the boat. They also just 'feel' safer, more like a proper boat.

To stop the slamming you need a deeper V hull, but even the sharpest hull can still slam occasionally.

There are few cuddy's around at 17ft, they tend to have very small to unuseable sleeping areas, most also come with outboards to maximise internal space.

At 19ft you get a bit more room, space for the loo and even a small sink and cooker. Examples at this size include Fletcher 19GTS, Maxum 1900sc etc.

The next step up is 21ft and it makes a big difference, much more space, better sea keeping all round-I cruised in company with a 21ft cuddy to the Channel Islands and France. But they cost about 50% more than the 19's, weigh 2000kg and need at least an SUV to tow them. They also tend to have 5.0l V8's, which makes a big difference in fuel consumption to the 4 cylinders or V6's.

Have a look at the Fletcher 19, popular boat that will hold its value well. If you can stretch to a 21ft, then lots more options including Chapperals and Searays which have deep V hulls.

 

[Solitaire]

Is it draft? that is talked about or displacement that will cope with the bigger waves? The slamming she will get used to, poor thing thinks the boat is going to break on the smallest wave...bless

Water line length is what will make the difference. The Solent is renowned for its "chop" - - short sharp waves that will make most small boat slam. The key is actually to keep the speed up and "ride" the waves. Slowing down will allow small boats to "fall" into the holes left by the waves but speed - read power - will hold the boat under tension and keep the boat from slamming.

It is an art rather than a science and takes a lot of practise and simply being on the water. Throttle control is paramount and knowing when to power on and when to take the power off only comes from doing it! As an instructor, I can only show you, I can't actually teach you - you have to feel the boat, become part of it. Most beginners want to take the the power off when it gets a bit rough - in reality putting the power on will make the hull work better, but you can be lured into a false sense of security. There is no substitute fir getting out there and doing it - but do it progressively.

 

[GrahamHR]

After many years out of boating, we started back with a Four Winns 225 (with 280 HP). After a few years, we changed it for a FW 245 (with 320 HP); the difference in the ability to handle rough water is significant. It is of course heavier though, but I'm sure the waterline length has a lot to o with it.

 

[hlb]

When I think of the seas I've had, over my fly bridge (10 FT up.) and water tight decks.

I'd be horrified by a bow rider. Get one wave wrong and your Nautilus, twenty thousand leagues under the sea. Gulp.

 

[Solitaire]

When I think of the seas I've had, over my fly bridge (10 FT up.) and water tight decks.

I'd be horrified by a bow rider. Get one wave wrong and your Nautilus, twenty thousand leagues under the sea. Gulp.

Haydn, some are worse than others. But in the main buying a bow rider in the UK will only see the owner keep them for a season. I have been doing a bit with the bigger Sea Ray bow riders and the last one had a very large petrol engine in it. Handled pretty well, but remember, most people who buy them are newbies and will learn, or will only use them when the weather is fine! In the summertime - shucks reminds me of a song!

You have been there, done it, got several T-shirts, not to mention burgess!

 

[lisilou]

I can only speak from our experience of a 21ft cuddy. brilliant boat but as far as the loo goes...we never used it and tbh i wouldve had to have been VERY desperate to even contemplate using it! it was (from memory) tucked away in like a cubby hole. Cant remember wether you had to pull it out to use or lift something to access it but either way it would have been awkward and as its not in any enclosed cubicle, would have been like peeing in your lounge! As i say, i can only speak for the boat we had but from a girlies perspective...no way would i use it so i'm guessing your wife might feel the same??
Oh and sleeping on it?...doable for a night (maybe 2) but not comfortable imo.

 

[gjgm]

We are not ready to change yet but am just curious as to what i can expect. As many may know we are on a 17' bowrider and have decided a cuddy of similar size. I would like to keep to 20' max, 18' if there are any?

Also as many of you have probably read my other posts, how much more seaworthy/comfort would be had? As stated i know the boat i have is more than capable, and by the end of the season i will be pushing the boat to its limits to se what it can take as opposed to me (i do this on every toy i buy)

We need a cuddy so she can have a erhem wee us boys can go over the side if needs be We would also like to have a night out even if its moored up, but obviously once we have done that, like my IOW trip the next step would be to sleep over there

Is it draft? that is talked about or displacement that will cope with the bigger waves? The slamming she will get used to, poor thing thinks the boat is going to break on the smallest wave...bless

Main problem with o/night on a small boat is storing all the clobber you need to bring along.. pillows, toilet bag,sleeping bag,towels etc etc. Sleeping o/night sounds great, but it isnt if you are walking over each other and all your belongings. TBH much more fun in a b+b than a too small boat.
Otherwise, my personal opinion having had bowriders for years in the past, is that unless you see yourself as some hardcore boater, taking his wife and kids out into the storm, you are not going to get any more protection from a cuddy than an open front.
Plenty of USA sports cuddys though. Go for the ones with the bigger deadrise;Regal are about 24 degrees;some of the "ski" boats will be about 18 and will knock your teath out.As to breaking the boat.. you,if not the family will throw the towel in long before the boat gets damaged. Thats not the same as being in the wrong seas, but the boat wont break.
As others have said, try to buy as big as you can- the sense of safety is exponential !

 

[cadser]

We had just the same experience. Being caught out at about 5 miles off shore with the wind blowing off shore and a rising sea is not a nice experience. I had the awful vision of taking water over the bow and in to the 'rider' and water logging the engine + becoming unstable.

So we sold our boat whilst keeping an eye on a 21' Chapparel with a cuddy. As it happened the 21' sold before ours did. Then i was diagnosed with cancer. Any how that's been taken out and we are now looking for a boat for next season as this one is nearly over, well it will be by the time i am fit.

I have looked at yachts, cruisers, cuddy sports boats, etc. I am still of the mind that a sports boat will suit us better, even though the fuel cost is there to deal with. Having looked at threads on scuttlebut concerning sailing weather and yachts they seem to get out less than a decent sized sport boat?

I am also looking at keeping it on the water through the winter rather than park and launch. Where we go in north wales (all year round) there are some cracking days when it would be nice to be on the water. All be it alone with the crab pots!

I agree with the above posts and a 21' will be about right for us. The only thing we really want is removable carpets as we are in and out of the water and putting a boat away until next weekend with wet carpets has always been a bone of contention. The water drains into the engine bay and the damp air rots anything it lands on.

We tried leaving the full cover on, but this keeps in moisture especially when it is hot. We tried keeping the light weight cover on, but in windy conditions these can pop off. Then all you need is to leave the bung in by accident with a severe low weather system and hey presto you have a swimming pool and a £2k bill for repairs!!!!!!!!

Hope you find what your looking for, and who knows we may be looking at the same boat?

 

[lovezoo]

The only thing we really want is removable carpets as we are in and out of the water and putting a boat away until next weekend with wet carpets has always been a bone of contention.

My Fletcher 19GTS has a removable carpet - first thing I did with it is remove it and store it in the garage. That was 5 years ago and its never been back in the boat.

BTW there is no bung to remove on my boat - the deck drains via a drain on either side and the engine bay drains via a bilge pump.

 

[tinkicker0]

Ever consider a binliner 1952 cuddy?
We have one and sleep over pretty much every decent weekend. We recently spent 4 days aboard, but you have to be very organised and very good friends with swmbo to do it.
see thames forum "a short trip upriver" for some pics.
if you and the missus enjoy camping and the outdoor life you will be fine, if you prefer hotels you need a bigger boat.

 

[cadser]

Great Pictures, I love going to Naburn lock. We used to camp there with the motorhome and get the river taxi into York.

 

[jhr]

Get a Fletcher 19; cracking little boats.

What you really need is a Sea Ray 215 but I'll let you come to that realisation yourself. You don't have to move the mattress to have a wee - a sign that you have really arrived

In the meantime, do some camping ashore - after that, any cuddy will seem like a 5 star hotel .....

 

[Warpa]

Water line length is what will make the difference. The Solent is renowned for its "chop" - - short sharp waves that will make most small boat slam. The key is actually to keep the speed up and "ride" the waves. Slowing down will allow small boats to "fall" into the holes left by the waves but speed - read power - will hold the boat under tension and keep the boat from slamming.

It is an art rather than a science and takes a lot of practise and simply being on the water. Throttle control is paramount and knowing when to power on and when to take the power off only comes from doing it! As an instructor, I can only show you, I can't actually teach you - you have to feel the boat, become part of it. Most beginners want to take the the power off when it gets a bit rough - in reality putting the power on will make the hull work better, but you can be lured into a false sense of security. There is no substitute fir getting out there and doing it - but do it progressively.

This is something in the last few eeks i have learned a lot, i really put it to the test yesterday coming back from Hamble to Shamrock key. It was very choppy and i found at 3.5K rpm i went straight over the top. All the years i spent on the water when younger are coming back to me now after a very long break away from the sea. Feeling the wind and tides are becoming 2nd nature as is adjusting trim and keeping an eye on the gauges.

 

[Warpa]

When I think of the seas I've had, over my fly bridge (10 FT up.) and water tight decks.

I'd be horrified by a bow rider. Get one wave wrong and your Nautilus, twenty thousand leagues under the sea. Gulp.

They are more seaworthy than many give credit for, think huge salt water lakes in the states and the weather, sea and distance i have been in the last 3 days and still have no water in the bilge, let alone the need to turn the pump on

 

[frankym3]

My experience is limited to fresh water use only, but would agree with another contributor that when confronted by rough water its really down to your own skill to minimise slamming, too slow and you crash down between every wave, too fast and you risk more serious damage!

Caught out once or twice on the lakes on the Shannon in bad weather with friends who aren't comfortable with the water and I couldnt get them out of the cuddy! They wouldve been petrified if they had been out in the elements with me and Obviously a rough Sea would be much worse again! Downside is that the slamming is amplified inside the cuddy and your kids might get scared the boat is going to break up! (Which it wont.. providing you stay off the rocks!)

The waves breaking over the bow is yet another concern and when you see how nice and dry everyone in the cuddy stays in comparison to me (Even with canopy up!) it lets you know the benefit to water intake!

This aside, its great to get in and sit down with a beer inside even it is a bit cramped if a shower hits when moored up, although a canopy would do the same job!

The cuddy also acts as a car boot for all your stuff, rings, skis, wet suits, ropes etc.. etc.. as with a fast sports boat its easy to get these things blown over the side and again it guarantees you dry clothes to change in to if necessary!

As far as sleeping on board in a 20ft or under boat, 1 night only id say, its more an emergency bed than anything else, thats why im changing mine next season to a 25ft as that to me is the minimum size you need to comfortably spend overnights!

Hope that helps! Franky

 

[Warpa]

Thanks franky The overnight sleep is not a must, probably more of a have a few drinks on board when moored up at home and spend the night there (more so if its an early tide next day)

With mariner water and electrics with a full canopy it would be roughing it, but that is the type of people we are...down to earth do what it takes people

I dont know what i was doing wrong or right out there, but with the bow cover on that fits to the bottom of the screen we took no water on and only two real drenching showers which is actually what i enjoy, thats boating for me

We will do next season in what we have then probably go for a 21' or 20' if i can find a deep v hull. Would also possibly be looking at deisel though that may narrow the search down. Someone told me that the V6 mercruiser i think it was is more economical that the straight 4 i have, which i can understand, then there is the fact we wont ever go too far, bournemouth and poole at most.

but as seems to always be the boating case, the bigger boat suddenly opens up a whole new experience

 

[hlb]

They are more seaworthy than many give credit for, think huge salt water lakes in the states and the weather, sea and distance i have been in the last 3 days and still have no water in the bilge, let alone the need to turn the pump on

Try 3 ft of water on the deck, see how you get on then.

Yes I understand your only going short distances, but weather can change awfull quickly.

First rule is, dont let water in. Getting it out again is a bigger problem.

 

[GrahamHR]

In all the time we have had cuddies, we've only slept on one of them once. A nice warm, calm evening at the marina, a meal at the local restaurant and a few drinks as the sun went down. It was OK with the camper canvas up. That is, until the wind got up and the saily boats halyards started making their infernal noise, the dog (who was sleeping in the cockpit) decided at 05:00 it was time to get up and soon after the torrential rain started !

For us, the cuddy is more use for storage and keeping water out of the boat; only twice have we had water over the cuddy "roof" and the windscreen, both times at North Stack near Holyhead.. The second time was because we went back and did it again !

 

[Warpa]

Try 3 ft of water on the deck, see how you get on then.

Yes I understand your only going short distances, but weather can change awfull quickly.

First rule is, dont let water in. Getting it out again is a bigger problem.

These negative responses i am used to on here I am a very hands on chap and actually work with my hands being a craftsman, i have a good 'feel' whatever i turn my hands to try it before you underate it would be a good idea, i passed ribs and cruisers on both occasions as im teaching myself the basics of the boat.



GrahamHR

Like i said earlier, we are used to sleeping 'rough' we are not the 60' boaters, if we were ever to afford that we would live on it


just to reitterate one of my 1st posts on here, we like the spray in our faces, to us its what boating is about, like my cars, trucks and even my push bike i work them all to the limit, when i find the limit i try another way to puish them further...extreme sports, madness. call it what you will, but we will always push whatever we have.

my moto even with the tools of my trade is to work them to their limit, i paid for them and they need to pay for themselves

may not be most on heres views, but im still floating