Boating what has changed

[Ink]

Congratulations, you are the only person I have ever put on block or ignore or whatever it is. I wont see your reply because I am off to find out how to make sure I never read any of your offensive, passive aggressive drivel again.

Oi!
I called him out with his drivel way back in #51!

Ink

 

[Graham376]

On the bonded stores thing...I guessed someone would say that but doesn't the whole bonded stores thing require a load of documentation and a seal? I'm not sure it's as simple as putting a lock on a cabinet and assuming everything will be fine when M. Douanier comes knocking. Documentation is onerous enough but where am I supposed to keep all the fish for the seal?

I don't know the rules for bond lockers and documentation but maybe there's an answer here - Excise Notice 69a: aircraft, ship and train stores - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

When we were visited by customs, they just required an empty locker, we put the cigs in and they put a self adhesive seal (signed and dated) across the door, with instructions not to remove until in international waters.

 

[TiggerToo]

I wonder where they will go next?

Apply for Scottish Honorary Citizenship. Quoting the number of Warning DMs from the Moderators as a testimony to our sanity, and worthiness of ploughing the wonderful Scottish waters.

 

[Poignard]

Oi!
I called him out with his drivel way back in #51!

Ink

'
Sorry, but I skewered him in #33!

 

[TiggerToo]

Yea well in life there are always Winners and Loosers with every change of the wind and tack of ones vessel , one mans fortune is anothers misfortune , tis the ways of life for evermore

in this case, only losers. Those who realise, and those who don't care

 

[LittleSister]

Thanks, so as long as you left for a day or so then went back that breaks the 180 continous days?

I think you're mistaken, Steve. As I understand it, it is 90 days in any 180 days (in effect the last 180 days).

So if you have been there for 90 days, and leave on the last day, you can't come back for another 90 days.

If you left, say, after 88 days, you could go back within the next 90 days, but only for two days.

n.b. This is assuming you don't have the French extended visa.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

This is assuming you don't have the French extended visa.

This is about the French extended visa which can be for up to 1 year. I have not found any information on the tax implications of using this visa on the French guvmint website, and would be interested in chapter and verse. From here...

Tourist or Private visit | France-Visas.gouv.fr

Stay exceeding 3 months
► Your situation
You want to visit France for private reasons, for a period exceeding 3 months without engaging in any professional activity during your stay.

► Your visa
You must apply for a long-stay “visitor” visa. You will be issued with a long-stay visa serving as a residence permit (VLS-TS).

That makes it sound like it might be considered as residency, albeit temporary. I believe that UK citizens who have residency of any country in the EU have to pay EU VAT on their boat if they take it to the EU because the 18 month rule mentioned in #123 does not apply to residents.

 

[LittleSister]

Thanks, so as long as you left for a day or so then went back that breaks the 180 continous days?

This is about the French extended visa which can be for up to 1 year. I have not found any information on the tax implications of using this vias on the French guvmint website.

Apologies. I see now that he was suggesting that leaving for a day before 180 days was up might mean not becoming liable for French tax, and not referring to the 90 days in 180 limit for those without an extended visa..

 

[Poignard]

Here's link to to an easy to use Schengen Calculator with which you can see if your intended stay will exceed the limit, or see how much you have left after your previous stays :

Schengen Calculator - A short-stay Schengen visa calculator (schengenareacalculator.com)

 

[Forty_Two]

This is about the French extended visa which can be for up to 1 year. I have not found any information on the tax implications of using this visa on the French guvmint website, and would be interested in chapter and verse. From here...

Tourist or Private visit | France-Visas.gouv.fr



That makes it sound like it might be considered as residency, albeit temporary. I believe that UK citizens who have residency of any country in the EU have to pay EU VAT on their boat if they take it to the EU because the 18 month rule mentioned in #123 does not apply to residents.

There are two long term visitor visas for France. One is for 3 - 6 months & is fairly easy, for instance the GHIC will cover the medical requirements. Time spent under the visa does NOT count towards your 90/180 & you can joIn the two together as required.

The second one for 7-12 months is normally for folks moving to France, you have to register with the Marie & the GHIC won't be accepted, full medical insurance is required.

In ALL cases if you spend over 6 months in a Jan - Dec period you are a defacto resident with all that implies, for instance completeing a French tax return.

Both long stay visas are multiple entry & can only be applied for in the UK with at least one visit to the administering agency.

And just to be quite clear there is no method to "reset" the 90 in a rolling 180 day allowance.

 

[doug748]

There are two long term visitor visas for France. One is for 3 - 6 months & is fairly easy, for instance the GHIC will cover the medical requirements. Time spent under the visa does NOT count towards your 90/180 & you can joIn the two together as required.

The second one for 7-12 months is normally for folks moving to France, you have to register with the Marie & the GHIC won't be accepted, full medical insurance is required.

In ALL cases if you spend over 6 months in a Jan - Dec period you are a defacto resident with all that implies, for instance completeing a French tax return.

Both long stay visas are multiple entry & can only be applied for in the UK with at least one visit to the administering agency.

And just to be quite clear there is no method to "reset" the 90 in a rolling 180 day allowance.

Excellent, thanks. After 137 posts something useful emerges. Have you got a link to this information Forty_Two?

.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

In ALL cases if you spend over 6 months in a Jan - Dec period you are a defacto resident with all that implies, for instance completeing a French tax return.

Does that mean that after 6 months EU VAT is payable on a UK VAT paid boat that you have used to get there?

 

[westernman]

There's been a lot said here about the negative effects of Brexit.

Can anyone counter that by telling us of its positive effects (on boating)?

There must be some way of wangling it so that we can buy boats in Europe without paying VAT or VAT unpaid second hand boats, and keep them there without ever paying VAT to anyone anywhere.

That is a 20% positive.

 

[Forty_Two]

Does that mean EU VAT is payable on a UK VAT paid boat that you have used to get there?

Not if it was in the EU on 31/12/2020 as mine was for instance. Yes if you take it today intending to leave it there, ie imported. Not if you invoke the 18mths TI as a non-eu resident.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Not if it was in the EU on 31/12/2020 as mine was for instance. Yes if you take it today intending to leave it there, ie imported. Not if you invoke the 18mths TI as a non-eu resident.

I'm interested in the last case. You said that after 6 months in any year that you are then a de-facto resident with all its tax implications, but the 18 months TI rules only applies to non-residents in an EU country, so to me these 2 means that EU VAT is payable even if you are not doing a permanent import. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Forty_Two]

Excellent, thanks. After 137 posts something useful emerges. Have you got a link to this information Forty_Two?

.

Tourist or Private visit | France-Visas.gouv.fr
Frequently Asked Questions

French News and Views in English | The Connexion
Paywall on the last one sorry.
It's all there but not easy. Certainly in France the 6mth point is a divider, no change there, it was always necessary to stay under 6 mths to avoid getting more involved with the state.

The biggest issue for me is not being able to take everything i want with me. Unfortunately this transfers a few extra £k per year from UK suppliers to French ones.

 

[Forty_Two]

I'm interested in the last case. You said that after 6 months in any year that you are then a de-facto resident with all its tax implications, but the 18 months TI rules only applies to non-residents in an EU country, so to me these 2 means that EU VAT is payable even if you are not doing a permanent import. I hope I'm wrong.

I see what you are saying & it may be so. I suspect only a French expert in these matters would know exactly how it would be applied. Of course other nationalities will have been doing this for years. There must be experience out there as to what view the authorities take.

Accidental residency could be expensive?

Edit: to make it worse re-importation back to the UK could invoke a further UK VAT payment if EU VAT was paid ? Perhaps there will be a prize for the most times is paid on the same boat?

 

[AngusMcDoon]

I see what you are saying & it may be so. I suspect only a French expert in these matters would know exactly how it would be applied. Of course other nationalities will have been doing this for years. There must be experience out there as to what view the authorities take.

Accidental residency could be expensive?

I expect that it will become clearer in the future. There won't have been many Brits that have used one of these tourist visas to transit the French canals since B because of C, but I expect more will attempt to do so in the future. I have not been able to find an answer to this question. I expect even asking the French embassy won't get a particularly helpful answer as they are unlikely to know chapter and verse yet either. I shall wait until others have attempted it before me.

 

[Forty_Two]

I expect that it will become clearer in the future. There won't have been many Brits that have used one of these tourist visas to transit the French canals since B because of C, but I expect more will attempt to do so in the future. I have not been able to find an answer to this question. I expect even asking the French embassy won't get a particularly helpful answer as they are unlikely to know chapter and verse yet either. I shall wait until others have attempted it before me.

I think the folks who want to use the canals through the EU have the short straw in all of this as by definition this is a pleasant & slower thing to do (having read several accounts).

As you say we shall see. I expect most Aussies, Canadians & Americans buy a boat in the EU to avoid VAT & any import duties.

 

[Poignard]

I think the folks who want to use the canals through the EU have the short straw in all of this as by definition this is a pleasant & slower thing to do (having read several accounts).

[...]

Yes, those who keep canal boats there can't just clear off to sea if necessary like we can.