Boatfolk contract time in ol Northern Ireland

[Fire99]

We've an 'interesting' scenario going on in Bangor, NI at the mo. Boatfolk's contract is due to expire (the marina is council owned but operated by Boatfolk) and the bottom line is Boatfolk have extended a contract for half of next season (April '24 - end of Sept '24) whilst the tendering process is sorted by the council for the next operator (maybe Boatfolk again)..

Us annual berth holders have so far not been able to sign an annual contract for next year, obviously because it's possible Boatfolk will only be operating it for half of the year. But recently we were given a 'Boatshow Special Offer'.
If we pay by Oct 1st. We can have 6 months at a 'special rate'. This rate, would you believe, equals about 70% of an annual contact in price!!!! The balancing point is they are offering a cheap rate for the winter 6 months of the season, which in total equals about what you would pay this year without any discount.

Bottom line - if Boatfolk don't get the contract ongoing from Oct 24, they depart with somewhere near 9 months money for 6 months berthing. And if they do get the contract, they get a full year berthing money without any discounts.

Obviously for the berth holders it means having to pay 6 months in advance for a terrible fixed summer rate on the hope that Boatfolk get the ongoing contract. If they don't and a new operator comes in it's been confirmed they can set their own tariff for the winter season and the berth holder will have to pay even more money and could end up with a very very expensive year!

So I'm curious what others think here but the consensus so far is that it's not really a 'Boatshow Special Offer' for the berth holder at all. It's a Boatfolk offer for Boatfolk.

 

[Seastoke]

At boat folk Conwy they are offering pay now in full for next year it’s due end of April. This is at this years price.

 

[dunedin]

It clearly is a tricky position for all parties, bertholders and marina operator, when the Council has a contract break for the operator which is out of phase with the annual berthing contracts. And made worse by not getting their operating contract decision sorted out ahead of time (think of the staff etc impacted, worse for them).
However, I don't think the proposed charges of 70% of the annual rate for the summer months is out of line with the norm.

It may differ on the South coast of England, but just had a look at my marina on the Clyde. The 6 month Winter berth rates is 29% of the annual rate - so by deduction a Summer only 6 month cost (which they don't explicitly offer) would be 71% of the annual rate.
So I would suggest Boatfolk have in fact done their homework and offering a reasonable rate - certainly one eminently justifiable by comparisons, even if no marina fee is a bargain!

Hope this helps

 

[benjenbav]

Is it possible to find out whether the successful tenderer (whoever it may be) has to honour existing berth-holder contracts?

 

[luke collins]

If you paid on a credit card would you be able to dispute and get some of the money back?

 

[Fire99]

It clearly is a tricky position for all parties, bertholders and marina operator, when the Council has a contract break for the operator which is out of phase with the annual berthing contracts. And made worse by not getting their operating contract decision sorted out ahead of time (think of the staff etc impacted, worse for them).
However, I don't think the proposed charges of 70% of the annual rate for the summer months is out of line with the norm.

It may differ on the South coast of England, but just had a look at my marina on the Clyde. The 6 month Winter berth rates is 29% of the annual rate - so by deduction a Summer only 6 month cost (which they don't explicitly offer) would be 71% of the annual rate.
So I would suggest Boatfolk have in fact done their homework and offering a reasonable rate - certainly one eminently justifiable by comparisons, even if no marina fee is a bargain!

Hope this helps

Thanks Dunedin...

It's a tricky one in that Boatfolk advised a few months back they were going to extend their contract till end of Sept 24 for some reason to 'help' with the contract negotiation etc and the general consensus (staff included, though obviously not the ones making the decisions) was that some form of pro-rata rate would be agreed.
Instead we waited and waited then got an offer that lasts just 3 weeks!!! which is as per the deal in my original post. To me it smells somewhat because the situation has been known for some time and such a short timeframe to accept an offer that really is zero to the benefit of the berthholder and 100% to Boatfolk's benefit..

I get that summer rates are normally steep compared to winter. Bangor's 'flexi' rate is loaded for summer and reduced in winter but that is an option that to the bertholder is beneficial in that you can leave at any time. It's more pay as you go.

The idea of an inflated summer rate is generally for people who don't want an annual contract with a marina so have the flexibility to go elsewhere for winter. We are ongoing annual bertholders who pay each year. There is no guarantee of the winter rate to balance the elevated summer rate if Boatfolk don't get the contract so for those of us who aren't looking for any flexibility or leave-early clauses and just want to be part of the marina year after year, we're playing roulette on what final end of year rate cost will be all based on who wins the contract from Sept 24.

We pay our fees upfront each year and I also think contribute a great deal to the marina (it's quite personal in NI) and I don't see any balancing to make the deal just a little bit balanced between supplier and customer.

 

[Fire99]

Is it possible to find out whether the successful tenderer (whoever it may be) has to honour existing berth-holder contracts?

I've been told 'not'. Boatfolk have the contract until end of Sept 24. If a different operator comes in there is zero requirement for them to honour any agreements made by Boatfolk and are 100% free to set their own tariffs. (That's been confirmed by Bangor's HarbourMaster).

 

[Fire99]

If you paid on a credit card would you be able to dispute and get some of the money back?

Conceptually I guess but I personally wouldn't want to do anything unscrupulous. Personally, I like to keep things as straightforward as poss.

 

[dunedin]

Thanks Dunedin...

It's a tricky one in that Boatfolk advised a few months back they were going to extend their contract till end of Sept 24 for some reason to 'help' with the contract negotiation etc and the general consensus (staff included, though obviously not the ones making the decisions) was that some form of pro-rata rate would be agreed.
Instead we waited and waited then got an offer that lasts just 3 weeks!!! which is as per the deal in my original post. To me it smells somewhat because the situation has been known for some time and such a short timeframe to accept an offer that really is zero to the benefit of the berthholder and 100% to Boatfolk's benefit..

I get that summer rates are normally steep compared to winter. Bangor's 'flexi' rate is loaded for summer and reduced in winter but that is an option that to the bertholder is beneficial in that you can leave at any time. It's more pay as you go.

The idea of an inflated summer rate is generally for people who don't want an annual contract with a marina so have the flexibility to go elsewhere for winter. We are ongoing annual bertholders who pay each year. There is no guarantee of the winter rate to balance the elevated summer rate if Boatfolk don't get the contract so for those of us who aren't looking for any flexibility or leave-early clauses and just want to be part of the marina year after year, we're playing roulette on what final end of year rate cost will be all based on who wins the contract from Sept 24.

We pay our fees upfront each year and I also think contribute a great deal to the marina (it's quite personal in NI) and I don't see any balancing to make the deal just a little bit balanced between supplier and customer.

To me it looks a reasonable rate - not an “inflated summer rate” but 70% of the usual annual rate, which looks to be the norm.
The payment 6 months early is however chancing it a bit. I would challenge that, along with other berthholders.
The key question I guess is your alternatives. Do any other local marinas have spaces, if so what would that cost for the year by comparison? A move to summer visitor rates on a weekly or monthly basis would typically be a lot more.
The other key question is what would be the winter only rate (ashore or afloat) at another nearby location. Add that to your 70% and see the total cost would be.

 

[Fire99]

To me it looks a reasonable rate - not an “inflated summer rate” but 70% of the usual annual rate, which looks to be the norm.
The payment 6 months early is however chancing it a bit. I would challenge that, along with other berthholders.
The key question I guess is your alternatives. Do any other local marinas have spaces, if so what would that cost for the year by comparison? A move to summer visitor rates on a weekly or monthly basis would typically be a lot more.
The other key question is what would be the winter only rate (ashore or afloat) at another nearby location. Add that to your 70% and see the total cost would be.

That's a fair point. I think probably what has ruffled the feathers is the cumulative aspect of longstanding foreknowledge, the inflated rate, the requirement to pay it 6 months in advance AND to advertise it to berthholders as a 'Boatshow Special Deal' which is anything but special.
It doesn't help the PR that an email was sent to all Boatfolk customers offering a discounted annual rate for next year (if paid in advance) only to later be informed by Bangor that it applied to all Boatfolk customers EXCEPT Bangor and we'd received the offer in error... That is bad form!

For me personally, I like being at Bangor. I have a number of contacts there but there are cheaper alternatives elsewhere so if there is no flexibility on this current offer, off I may go, but personally I think the whole process at Bangor has been a bit of a shambles.

The marina at the present time is pretty much limping on since no-one wants to spend any money on it - This is perhaps a slight side point in the argument.

 

[penfold]

Conceptually I guess but I personally wouldn't want to do anything unscrupulous. Personally, I like to keep things as straightforward as poss.

Given what Boatfolk are trying to pull is unscrupulous sharp practice, I'd say protecting yourself by any and all means is just sensible. Moaning to your councillor about the situation may get you somewhere, not least getting an explanation for why the council are so shambolic about their tendering process; normal people tender things well before the end of a contract in order to avoid this sort of uncertainty.

 

[Fire99]

Given what Boatfolk are trying to pull is unscrupulous sharp practice, I'd say protecting yourself by any and all means is just sensible. Moaning to your councillor about the situation may get you somewhere, not least getting an explanation for why the council are so shambolic about their tendering process; normal people tender things well before the end of a contract in order to avoid this sort of uncertainty.

Thanks Penfold.. It's certainly ruffled some feathers.. I will run it by the local councillor even if nothing more than making feelings felt.
I agree the whole thing is pretty shambolic..

 

[penfold]

To be fair there's a lot of it about; the council run ferry near me was subject to similar kack-handedness a few years back, they fouled up the tendering, then decided run it again but didn't bother extending the existing contract so when the second tender turned into a farce there were only a few weeks left until it ended. They then compounded the offence by letting the contract to a wideboy with no track record and a vessel which spent more time tied up being fixed than carrying passengers, at least in the first 12 months.

 

[henryf]

It sounds to me that you need to get on to the council and get them to approve a new lease with Boatfolk asap rather than dragging their heels in the hope of getting an increased bid which will be passed straight through to you the bertholders.

 

[ashtead]

I do wonder if boatfolk have adopted this approach to generate customer noise with the council and hence improve terms on offer to them as operator? Maybe the market is crowded there with operators quint up but did boatfolk acquire this site as part of wider corporate acquisition of 7 or so sites and now want to shake council owners up? I just thinking bertholders are pawns in a bigger conversation?

 

[Croftie]

That's a fair point. I think probably what has ruffled the feathers is the cumulative aspect of longstanding foreknowledge, the inflated rate, the requirement to pay it 6 months in advance AND to advertise it to berthholders as a 'Boatshow Special Deal' which is anything but special.

Is 6 months in advance normal for this marina or just part of this "Special Deal"? Seems excessive to me. Mine has a 3 months prepay option and then you get an early payment discount.

 

[Fire99]

It sounds to me that you need to get on to the council and get them to approve a new lease with Boatfolk asap rather than dragging their heels in the hope of getting an increased bid which will be passed straight through to you the bertholders.

Thanks Henry.. I will give the council a shout and see if I can get some response from them...

 

[Fire99]

I do wonder if boatfolk have adopted this approach to generate customer noise with the council and hence improve terms on offer to them as operator? Maybe the market is crowded there with operators quint up but did boatfolk acquire this site as part of wider corporate acquisition of 7 or so sites and now want to shake council owners up? I just thinking bertholders are pawns in a bigger conversation?

I'm sure NI isn't unique in this but there has been a huge amount of speculation and rumour for some time. Bangor has a number of very very long standing redevelopment plans in place that should hopefully dig a hole in the ground before Southend United win the Premiership!! Allegedly Boatfolk wanted the ability to put some form of land based holiday apartments on the proposed development site overlooking the marina but the council weren't having any of it.. (allegedly of course). So I totally agree ashtead that it's likely there is a much bigger story lurking behind us lowly berth holders who just want to park our boats for a year...

 

[Fire99]

Is 6 months in advance normal for this marina or just part of this "Special Deal"? Seems excessive to me. Mine has a 3 months prepay option and then you get an early payment discount.

Cheers Croftie.. In the past the marina has offered around this time a discount on next years annual contract if renewed around this time.. Around 3% seems to ring a bell. Last year due to the contract malarkey (it was already known that the contract was up for tender last year), Bangor's deal was delayed until January this year where we got a slight discount on an annual contract if we renewed before the end of Jan. And then we come to now and the only thing consistent with 'offers' in the past is the timing. This one isn't an offer as such for the berth holder at all..

Just to rub salt in the wound, the harbourmaster sent out the offer again yesterday (I'm guessing there hasn't been very much uptake on it) clarifying the points I raised with him (specifically stating this time that it is 70% of the annual rate for 6 months.. I'm not sure if that is the exact figure but it was the approx. that I sent to him and now he's used it in his broadcast email. , and the fact the winter rate is only guaranteed if boatfolk get the contract (a negotiation tactic to the council perhaps? ) ..
The sting is a footnote has been added this time saying if we don't take the offer before Oct1st there will be an inflationary increase in the rate and then another inflationary increase before next year's contract begins.. I can't say if it was intentional to sound like a threat but if it wasn't it was very clumsy. Well it certainly ruffled my feathers..

 

[Croftie]

Cheers Croftie.. In the past the marina has offered around this time a discount on next years annual contract if renewed around this time.. Around 3% seems to ring a bell.

Looks like you and the other berth holders are being properly done over.
As a comparison Looking at last years renewal I got a 10% discount for payment before 31st December so worth pre pay by 3 months.