Boat Share in the Canaries - thoughts?

[Beneteau381]

Sounds a good plan. Enjoy your cruise (though speaking to some of the boats arriving for ARC, I wouldn't leave it too late to head South, as many got pasted heading for the Canaries for October / November having left the UK too late and having to fight strong SW winds)

I weather routed an Italian from La Linea to the Canaries late October 2 years ago, big seas and 20 plus knots all the way, he didnt like it!

 

[dunedin]

The RYA's Chief Legal chap spoke on this at this year's cruising conference. He said the EU had already offered an extended visa for non-commercial travellers from the UK, provided the UK reciprocated. The UK has declined this offer and that, unless the UK accepts the EU offer, we'd move to 90 in 180.
There were quite a few in the audience of retirement age who became quite upset at this.

That's interesting. Can you recall the name of the RYA speaker at the conference?

 

[capnsensible]

I weather routed an Italian from La Linea to the Canaries late October 2 years ago, big seas and 20 plus knots all the way, he didnt like it!

Pot luck. We let Gib on our liveaboard yacht three octobers ago. Scorchio and had to motor half of it. Arrived in the Canaries 1st. November.

 

[Pavalijo]

I know more than a little about that subject and you're right of course. Holidaymakers who generally stay on average 10/11 days are huge contributors to resort economies. I had more in mind expat or long stay foreigners such as yachties who grossly exaggerate their worth to the local economy.

I would agree that the number of yachties is not big enough to sway policy but if you add to that the motorhomers, holiday home owners and the ”snowbirds” who rent a place for a few months each winter then the value to the economy starts to add up.

 

[Irish Rover]

I would agree that the number of yachties is not big enough to sway policy but if you add to that the motorhomers, holiday home owners and the ”snowbirds” who rent a place for a few months each winter then the value to the economy starts to add up.

Even in Spain where there are a big number of expat Brits I doubt their combined national economic impact would be much greater than that of a medium sized town and only a fraction of the impact of TUI UK or Jet2 customers.

 

[mbroom]

I would agree that the number of yachties is not big enough to sway policy but if you add to that the motorhomers, holiday home owners and the ”snowbirds” who rent a place for a few months each winter then the value to the economy starts to add up.

Doesn’t matter if they are yachthies, caravanners, or snowbirds; the important thing is the visa. Figures are hard to come by, but although the numbers may be bigger, the “2 weeks all inclusive crowd” are not always what resorts crave. Cracks are possibly already appearing: Portugal considers subsidising UK tourists' post-Brexit healthcare. Schengen may not allow an extension at present to the 90/180 day rule, but individual states can and already do. Anecdotal evidence at present suggest that Spain and Greece are already giving residential visas very easily (and will hopefully honour them post-Brexit)We just don’t know at present, but there may or may not be a change. Look at Turkey who made a residence visa much easier once they realised that they could lose income from long term tourists. I am as pissed off as possible with Brexit, but I will find a way around it to allow cruising, as many Ozzies etc already do.

 

[Irish Rover]

Doesn’t matter if they are yachthies, caravanners, or snowbirds; the important thing is the visa. Figures are hard to come by, but although the numbers may be bigger, the “2 weeks all inclusive crowd” are not always what resorts crave. Cracks are possibly already appearing: Portugal considers subsidising UK tourists' post-Brexit healthcare. Schengen may not allow an extension at present to the 90/180 day rule, but individual states can and already do. Anecdotal evidence at present suggest that Spain and Greece are already giving residential visas very easily (and will hopefully honour them post-Brexit)We just don’t know at present, but there may or may not be a change. Look at Turkey who made a residence visa much easier once they realised that they could lose income from long term tourists. I am as pissed off as possible with Brexit, but I will find a way around it to allow cruising, as many Ozzies etc already do.

I hope these arrangements all work out for UK yachties and expats but I think people need to be realistic in their expectations. The initiative in Portugal is aimed firmly at holidaymakers and anyone looking at the frequency of flights from every UK airport to Faro and Lisbon will understand why. For sure they prefer independent and B&B guests but AI is also a huge contributor to the local economy - hotels employ approximately one staff member for every 2 x rooms and even the AI hotels support considerable ancillary employment in supply and services. The UK's current attitude towards non skilled workers and the tough line being taken on a range of issues before negotiations even commence doesn't bode well for future flexibility. I really don't think yachties and expats will be top of anyone's list when the haggling gets to the business end.
Finally Turkey eased requirements for a residence visa at a time when the EU was opening the door to visa free travel for Turks (as part of the overall deal to facilitate return of illegal migrants from Greece to Turkey). That important word "reciprocity" in play again. It is no longer that easy to get or retain a residence visa.

 

[RupertW]

Doesn’t matter if they are yachthies, caravanners, or snowbirds; the important thing is the visa. Figures are hard to come by, but although the numbers may be bigger, the “2 weeks all inclusive crowd” are not always what resorts crave. Cracks are possibly already appearing: Portugal considers subsidising UK tourists' post-Brexit healthcare. Schengen may not allow an extension at present to the 90/180 day rule, but individual states can and already do. Anecdotal evidence at present suggest that Spain and Greece are already giving residential visas very easily (and will hopefully honour them post-Brexit)We just don’t know at present, but there may or may not be a change. Look at Turkey who made a residence visa much easier once they realised that they could lose income from long term tourists. I am as pissed off as possible with Brexit, but I will find a way around it to allow cruising, as many Ozzies etc already do.

You keep missing the point which is that cruising yachties are not helped by residency of a particular country. That works only if you are keeping your boat mostly in one country year after year.

 

[mbroom]

You keep missing the point which is that cruising yachties are not helped by residency of a particular country. That works only if you are keeping your boat mostly in one country year after year.

True if you keep moving. However the thread referred to the canaries as a destination. Therefore a residents permit would solve a lot of problems.

 

[Beneteau381]

I hope these arrangements all work out for UK yachties and expats but I think people need to be realistic in their expectations. The initiative in Portugal is aimed firmly at holidaymakers and anyone looking at the frequency of flights from every UK airport to Faro and Lisbon will understand why. For sure they prefer independent and B&B guests but AI is also a huge contributor to the local economy - hotels employ approximately one staff member for every 2 x rooms and even the AI hotels support considerable ancillary employment in supply and services. The UK's current attitude towards non skilled workers and the tough line being taken on a range of issues before negotiations even commence doesn't bode well for future flexibility. I really don't think yachties and expats will be top of anyone's list when the haggling gets to the business end.
Finally Turkey eased requirements for a residence visa at a time when the EU was opening the door to visa free travel for Turks (as part of the overall deal to facilitate return of illegal migrants from Greece to Turkey). That important word "reciprocity" in play again. It is no longer that easy to get or retain a residence visa.

The initiative was aimed firmly at us yotties staying long term in Portugal, there were also queues of motor homers at the Camara when we did ours. Interesting as well, the phrase “we are the oldest allies in Europe” has come up on a regular basis.

 

[Irish Rover]

The initiative was aimed firmly at us yotties staying long term in Portugal, there were also queues of motor homers at the Camara when we did ours. Interesting as well, the phrase “we are the oldest allies in Europe” has come up on a regular basis.

If you want to believe that that's fine and obviously there's a spin off to yachties et al but you're fooling yourself if you think these groups are contributing enough to the Portuguese economy to justify this measure.

 

[Beneteau381]

If you want to believe that that's fine and obviously there's a spin off to yachties et al but you're fooling yourself if you think these groups are contributing enough to the Portuguese economy to justify this measure.

I never fool myself.

 

[V1701]

The initiative was aimed firmly at us yotties staying long term in Portugal, there were also queues of motor homers at the Camara when we did ours. Interesting as well, the phrase “we are the oldest allies in Europe” has come up on a regular basis.

I'm curious as to how motorhomers might provide a Portuguese address with which to get their 5 year visa?

 

[webcraft]

Webcraft, may I say Avy-J looks in good condition and very attractive with her traditional lines. I wonder how she sails in comparison to the Vega, the Vega being a fabulous package and hard act to follow. I ask as the Vega and MG have both caught my eye and are on my shortlist of possible purchases. (The MG seems to offer a lot of boat for not much money). I wonder which would be your choice for singlehanded offshore sailing.
Good luck with your plans, I hope they work out for you.

I've only really sailed Avy-J to Tobermory and back so far, not sailed her in any heavy weather so cannot really offer a comparison at this point in time. However, the MG30 has a great reputation as a heavy weather boat and a much hjigher 'comfort' number than the Vega. My impression is that either boat wold be a good choice for budget singlehanded or two-up offshore cruising but the Morgan Giles might be a bit more comfortable in heavy weatyher due to her greater displacement and fabbulous hull shape.

I hope to be able to offer much more info on this later in the year.

- W

 

[webcraft]

Pot luck. We let Gib on our liveaboard yacht three octobers ago. Scorchio and had to motor half of it. Arrived in the Canaries 1st. November.

As you say, pot luck. Our plan this time is probably to arrive mid-October, taking our time down the Rias and Portugal, then maybe hopping down Morocco as I have not been there before.

Last time in 2006 we got held up by a lot of bad weather in Portugal, left very late from Cascais (27th October), got headed and ended up making for Madeira instead of Lanzarote and got hammered four days out. I would like to avoid that happening again . . . so would want to be South of Gib by early October at the latest this time.

- W

 

[Beneteau381]

I'm curious as to how motorhomers might provide a Portuguese address with which to get their 5 year visa?

They were using a campsite in Albufeira

 

[Beneteau381]

As you say, pot luck. Our plan this time is probably to arrive mid-October, taking our time down the Rias and Portugal, then maybe hopping down Morocco as I have not been there before.

Last time in 2006 we got held up by a lot of bad weather in Portugal, left very late from Cascais (27th October), got headed and ended up making for Madeira instead of Lanzarote and got hammered four days out. I would like to avoid that happening again . . . so would want to be South of Gib by early October at the latest this time.

- W

We went down late July, the Rias were cold, wet and miserable. Cascais was were she said, this feels more like summer, that she felt we had arrived.

 

[webcraft]

We went down late July, the Rias were cold, wet and miserable. Cascais was were she said, this feels more like summer, that she felt we had arrived.

We didn't arrive in the Rias until late August, it was warm and sunny.

- W

 

[steve350]

I've only really sailed Avy-J to Tobermory and back so far, not sailed her in any heavy weather so cannot really offer a comparison at this point in time. However, the MG30 has a great reputation as a heavy weather boat and a much hjigher 'comfort' number than the Vega. My impression is that either boat wold be a good choice for budget singlehanded or two-up offshore cruising but the Morgan Giles might be a bit more comfortable in heavy weatyher due to her greater displacement and fabbulous hull shape.

I hope to be able to offer much more info on this later in the year.

- W

Thanks Webcraft.
A budget boat for singlehanded offshore sailing is indeed what I'm looking for. With the market being as it is there are some wonderful boats available now that would have been too expensive for me just a few years ago. The Twister however still remains above my budget. Interesting that you mention the comfort ratio of the Vega in comparison to the MG30, the figures being 20 and 28 respectively. How these figures translate into real world experience would be interesting to discover, I guess you are perfectly placed to find out. (Incidentaly the comfort figure for the Twister is an incredible 40!)
Although I often look for alternatives to the Vega I feel its difficult to find something that's a better all round package without going up in size and budget.
Agree with you, the MG30 has fabulous lines. I read somewhere that the counter stern was a useful asset as it provides a reserve of buoyancy in a following sea. Perhaps I'm rambling on a bit here. Thanks again and good luck cruising her.

 

[V1701]

They were using a campsite in Albufeira

How encouraging, if they can get one with that I should be fine with a 12 month berthing contract...