Boat Radio Licence

posted twice I know but it is relevant to both places:

The radio licence fee comes to the people who deal with the interference and abuse of the service ie Ofcom.

The actual SAR responses are funded by the tax payer.

An example of the abuse response from Ofcom is here,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/3602119.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/3889783.stm

I'm sure that every one will notice that despite conviction and closedown of the offender, due to his personal circumstances he was not fined or ordered to pay costs, hence his abuse (not to mention risking lifeboat crews' lives) was stopped but licensees paid for it to be done.

Mike



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Gunfleet

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not true

<<'m sure that every one will notice that despite conviction and closedown of the offender, due to his personal circumstances he was not fined or ordered to pay costs, hence his abuse (not to mention risking lifeboat crews' lives) was stopped but licensees paid for it to be done.>>
I hope you use information in a more accurate way in your office. What the item actually *says* is that the magistrates sent matey to crown court for sentencing (and that implies for costs too). That means they thought their power of a max 6 months custodial sentence was insufficient given the gravity of the offence. None of what you wrote is in the article.

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Sea Devil

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Re: not true

:)

Would it be a thought to let the police prosecute serious radio offences and then we would not have to pay any licence fee at all?

Seriously if the S&R services were having problems with a serious abuse of the system then surely this is something the police could handle. I mean how many succesful prosecutions does OFCOM achieve in a year? Hundreds????

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JohnL

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Buying a round of drinks is one thing but our £20 went to buy computer system at the RA. then it was all change, seems like a lot of money wasted. But then again where does the money spent on drink end up.

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Ships_Cat

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That's correct Mike - as anywhere, by treaty an individual ship's licence is required if sailing internationally, and for the same root reason (ability to communicate internationally) the same licence is also required if MF/HF is carried, even if only in domestic waters.

As in all western countries the vast majority of boats in NZ are are under 7m (85 - 90% seems typical view for such countries) so the question of those leaving domestic waters hardly ever arises and they are mainly able to sit under the General Licence. Of bigger boats fewer would make international voyages than say those in the UK but obviously even among the bigger boats most do not make international voyages in any country unless there is a common land border (eg USA/Canada, USA/Mexico, France/Italy, etc, etc), but even then the majority still only make very local voyages (often not even getting out of the marina :) ).

I do not know what percentage of boats in NZ carry VHF but I think that it has probably increased greatly in recent years among the smaller boats who probably never carried it when there was no general licence. The carriage of VHF by even very small boats such as sea kayaks and open runabouts is actively promoted. As one does not need an individual ships licence to do so one can buy and carry one with no impediment, and also without even an operators certificate providing one only uses it for assistance.

Under the same regulation that "confers" the general licence it is also mandatory to obtain an MMSI if one carries a DSC capable radio (EPIRB's are serialised though). That is (well at least was) issued free.

Callsigns are now again required in NZ (but not in Australia) but issuing of them to vessels under the general licence has been devolved to the Voluntary Coastguard (is like you RNLI but smaller of course) who issue them over a pay telephone system for a nominal fee. Haven't checked recently but those callsigns only have a validity of 5 years if not renewed.

An operator's certificate is also now again required but one can either just home study it (the MSA provides a booklet free) and sit it with an examiner or the Voluntary Coastguard, or else do a course. That certificate does not fulfill the requirements for international treaty if going foreign or if carrying equipment capable of international communications eg MF/HF in which case the Government issued certificate is required.

Across all radio services licence fees are required to be set at an amount required to cover the cost of administration and investigations. However for some services, voluntary equipped VHF/EPIRB/Radar vessels being one, it is funded from the public purse. If an individual ships licence is required its annual cost is NZD45 so about the same as the UK one.

Along a similar vein, in the NZ boating world the recreational boater's contribution to navaids is covered by a vote from the public purse (commercial vessels pay light dues) - same as in UK I think. All NZ charts (which also includes a number of Pacific countries and the Pacific International small scale series) are issued at the cost of of distribution only, the data, as in the USA, being regarded as the property of the nation - so for the complete official set of 150 charts in ARCS type format on CD we pay around the equivalent of GBP20 as the cost of distribution is obviously low, and for paper charts around the equivalent of GBP6 each, corrected to date of sale.

Should I assume from your familiarity with the Ministry of Economic Affairs internet site that you may be following the NZ/Australia/USA route to some extent /forums/images/icons/smile.gif (would have used a [cheeky] smilie if there was one)?

John



<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.
 
Re: not true

Sorry but my not noticing that the entire story wasn’t there doesn't make it "not true", it makes it an oversight on my part. You should maybe consider taking a breath before retorting, I am after all only human!

He was indeed sent to the Crown Court where he was sentenced to "community service" due to the afore mentioned circumstances, the Judge stated if it wasn't for those circumstances he would have given a custodial sentence.


Mike


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Quote "Should I assume from your familiarity with the Ministry of Economic Affairs internet site that you may be following the NZ/Australia/USA route to some extent (would have used a [cheeky] smilie if there was one)?"

At present Ofcom is looking into alternative methods of licensing vessels. This approach has been considered but unlike NZ and the US our closest foreign administration is only 20 odd miles away by (not particularly rough) Sea thereby making it difficult to implement.

Mike

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Ships_Cat

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I would be happy to bet you a very big saucer of milk that even in the UK fewer than 5% of all pleasure vessels that could usefully carry VHF (canoes upwards, and remembering that the vast majority of boats are under 7 m) ever enter foreign territorial waters.

Do you have the statistics at all?

(PS - my comments are not entirely driven by mischeviousness Mike. I have a genuine general interest in that I have a very good client who operates vessels (although commercial) under UK legislation)

John

<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.
 
Ahhh, statistics and figures.

Due to the fact that in the UK there is no requirement to register boats or even skippers/helmsmen, figures are near impossible to gather. I along with quite a few interested organisations have tried but to no avail. No-one even knows how many pleasure boats there actually are here.

It's probably worth pointing out that here, during the Summer months, it is very common for small craft to either sail East to the Euro mainland or West to Ireland. If the weather is good and precautions are taken neither are particularly hazardous or even take very long.

Mike

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bigmart

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I seem to be getting a touch of deja vou here. About once a month someone asks a question,on here, regarding Radio Licensing & pretty soon afterwards a Kiwi pops up & starts telling us how to run our country when they have no comprehension of the problems we face.

Its like a Labour Government where you get all those Jocks telling the English how to live, or should that be getting their revenge!

Martin

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To be fair to John, he does raises questions that we, both as RA and now as Ofcom, have spent time considering.

As Ofcom we are looking how to make things easier for customers whilst ensuring that the UK's international obligations are properly met. There has to be very very good arguments for maintaining the status quo.

We would have to find a way to do it without ending up with similar misinformation about the system as there is in both the US and NZ (for example their pleasure boat owners don't understand that a licence isn't needed until you either fit long range comms or go outside of TWs). In other words to avoid a situation where, say, UK boats were being fined by the Netherlands authorities for not having the correct ship station licence, due to the skipper believing that there is no requirement to have it.

Mike



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bigmart

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You are obviously doing what you must to ensure the simplicity, of the system, for the user. The R.A. or Offcom do not do themselves any favours by not persuing the unlicensed & mis-users of the system with more enthusiasm. Why don't you book a few more & instil a sense of responsibility into the rest.

How about a separate unlicenced waveband for those who do not want the full licence?

My concern is "my" safety & anyone who listens to the babble in the Solent at a weekend, or the lanuage of the Fishermen on 77 in the week, cannot help to understand the need for some semblance of order on the airwaves. I have read those who say that its so bad now so why try to regulate it. Me, I just dread to think how bad it could be if left with no order.

For those who use these arguments to decry the Solent. Let me say. The reason the Solent is so full of idiots is because it is a great place to sail. When you get a greater volume of people, proportionately, there are more idiots.

Still the winter is coming & I hope to get a few days in during the cold spell. It shoud be quieter then.

Martin

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Sea Devil

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Cor strewth bigmack,

Hope I don't meet you on a dark night.

Just do not bother to switch on your vhs.

What the hell is it for anyway? - talking to the marina and possibly asking a huge great ship heading towards you what it's intentions are...
If you want to make a phone call use your mobile phone...
If you want to shout for help then use the epirb....
Why on earth do you bother with it? Can you think of any serious use for it other than to chat?

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bigmart

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I hardly ever use my VHS these days. I've traded up to DVD's.

I'm just a big softy really although I must admit to finding it pretty tedious when every month the same posts with the same whines pops up on here.

As for why do I bother. Well I've just upgraded to a super new set with lots of whistles & bells. It' even got a Foghorn & a loudhaler. Should suit my temprament shouldn't it.

Now I can really yell at those Stinkies (Drug dealing, Hairdressing, Poof's) the lot of them. Just ask that BrendanS.

Martin

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Ships_Cat

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<<<soon afterwards a Kiwi pops up & starts telling us how to run our country when they have no comprehension of the problems we face.>>>

Well I think that nowhere have I told you how to run your country. I have just said what is done in NZ and in some other countries - take it or leave it as far as I am concerned. In previous threads I have been sometimes at pains to point out that I have no intention of telling anyone how to do it just that there are other approaches. However, I do understand that it can be painful for some listening to any explanation of how others do it and feel it to be a threat to their own parochial cosiness.

Regarding the assumption that I have no comprehension of the problems you face - well an enormous leap of judgement on your part as even though I am only a cat I work internationally in the marine field and that for professional fleet owners, all of whom are currently not NZ domiciled.

John


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Sea Devil

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Great - much rather listen to Jimmy Buffet......... Than listen to the vhf - Terrified to chat on the HF in case the ships cat has kittens ..... Communication is difficult without flags....

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bigmart

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Like I said you have no comprehension of the problems we Brits face when sailing coastal waters like the Solent.

The bit that really annoys me is that you always say the same thing. For gods sake put another record on.

Martin

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