Boat prices starting to fall

[doug748]

I think we all know that what the market has done over the last few years is rare. As demand inevitably reduces to more normal levels, so too will prices but I wouldn’t confuse prices correcting to where they were and should likely be, with a huge market slump.

The above said, order books for the UKs big three are still very far ahead and so too are materials prices to make them so that will still strengthen the residual values of their back catalogue products, especially those in good order and with low hours.

in short, i see no real reason to panic right now and would be more concerned of missing life doing what i want than waiting for prices to come to me.

Indeed.

Boats were arguably a bargain pre 2020, and prices have gone beyond a correction, now looking expensive. All the fancy wishful thoughts in the world will not bring the old prices back, asking prices may well moderate but it's likely a five year cycle.
Just like looking in Country Life from 1960 and seeing what you could buy in Sunningdale for 8000 quid. it's fun but of little practical use. Inflation alone will ensure that "cheap" boats are a thing of the past.

Equally important, very grand UK summers like this one will help people hang on, even in hard times.

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[PowerYachtBlog]

Nobody needs a boat hence why if a Princess 50 sells fifty units it is deemed a success.
But then once you get used to it many people can't stay without it.

The market knows its demands. That in the last 12-15 years of correction.
Princess use to produce 200-300 boats a year, now they are doing like 100.
Sunseeker the same. And Fairline since it is a work in progress are doing about fifty.
The same for Cranchi who used to do 500-1000 a year, and now are doing like 100-200.
Azimut used to be about 400 including its Benetti and Atlantis brands. And now produce like 200.
Ferretti Group used to do about 400 across all its brands, now are doing like 150-200.

Builders also do not want to build inventory. For example a Princess makes only twelve V40s a year. You can ask them what you want but they will not make another one.
These boats are immediately ordered by the twelve largest dealers. So if you go and your dealer sold his, you enter into the waiting list and a demand for 1.5 to 2 years.

 

[Momac]

For example a Princess makes only twelve V40s a year. You can ask them what you want but they will not make another one.
These boats are immediately ordered by the twelve largest dealers. So if you go and your dealer sold his, you enter into the waiting list and a demand for 1.5 to 2 years.

A sound plan from a boat builders perspective.

 

[Greg2]

We have certainly experienced interesting times in terms of boat prices since the onset of the pandemic. Those that want to buy taking the view that this is a ridiculous bubble is entirely understandable but what will actually happen on prices is, in reality, speculation IMHO.

Prior to the pandemic there was a view amongst some brokers that used boat prices had dropped too far and as PowerYachtBlog has identified new boats are not as plentiful as they once were and they are a whole lot more expensive than they used to be. Add to this the removal of the EU as an option for U.K. buyers due to VAT and you can see why there is strong demand for used boats. I can see the potential for a bit of a change but whether it will be a big change in prices remains to be seen I think. ?
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[Bigplumbs]

With respect, I've read this post twice and (don't know if it's just me?) it makes no sense! ??‍

Most of his posts are just a rambling collection of statements which make little sense ?

 

[Portofino]

We have certainly experienced interesting times in terms of boat prices since the onset of the pandemic. Those that want to buy taking the view that this is a ridiculous bubble is entirely understandable but what will actually happen on prices is, in reality, speculation IMHO.

Prior to the pandemic there was a view amongst some brokers that used boat prices had dropped too far and as PowerYachtBlog has identified new boats are not as plentiful as they once were and they are a whole lot more expensive than they used to be. Add to this the removal of the EU as an option for U.K. buyers due to VAT and you can see why there is strong demand for used boats. I can see the potential for a bit of a change but whether it will be a big change in prices remains to be seen I think. ?
.

Almost ….unless it a boat stuck in the U.K. that could or was pre brexit destined for the Med ….my point !

This is because happy to spell it out for the 3rd time …..those buyers will skip the U.K. market .To avoid EU VAT .

For Eg a floating apartment Prinny circa 50 ft , or a fashionable sports boat of 60-70 ft say a U.K. well specced Predator .
These boats will only sell to other like minded U.K. boaters , but the new owners burnt his bridges so to speak if warmer climates pull .A narrower market than before .Very narrow .

 

[prinex]

For what is worth ... I was approached yesterday by a broker of a Ferretti 135s on my way to the pier, oldies but goodies, CAT engines, was used this year for a bit of swimming around and last year did a trip to corsica so at least not the floating apartment. Inside the boat was ok, nothing you could not fix yourself.

He asked 80K Euro or so but I had the feeling lower 60 or even 50K would do the trick (broker was on the 60K as lowest price).

So there are cheap decent boats on the market, this one was not even advertised, ferretti "preowned" shop has one here Finding your dream yacht it’s only a click away for whopping 180K Euro, is not the same boat btw.

There is also a San Lorenzo 57 at 80K something on the market, the ones listed at 130/160K from last year did not sell and I guess we will see "priced reduced" very soon.

Maybe the owners are realizing that asking 200K for 25+ years old boats was a bit of a stretch and coming down to earth.

 

[Greg2]

Had friends aboard for the weekend and he is a Broker. He says that whilst prices have yet to shift they are starting to see lower offers whereas stuff has been selling for asking price or as near as for the last couple of years.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

There is also a San Lorenzo 57 at 80K something on the market, the ones listed at 130/160K from last year did not sell and I guess we will see "priced reduced" very soon.

That Sanlorenzo 57 in Spezia needs a whole refit to be fair, as I know people who have seen it. A serious refit will put you back plus or minus 200k on something like that, and you are still with under-powered GM 735hp for a 30 t plus yacht. At 260/280 you are looking possibly into getting a 62 with some serious Man 1100hp engines, and decent performance for a 35 ton yacht and a timeless design.
While the 57 is still a good looker a 62 is possibly one of the most beautiful boats made in its time, which still holds a good candle to most similar size yachts today.
A 135S at 80k is very decent, a serious buyer should take it as that is one for a fast sale.

 

[Momac]

Some boats are still selling fast locally . One boat did not appear on the brokers website as he had a buyer waiting. I expect that is by no means a unique event.
I understand the broker here thinks prices have cooled off slightly.
But much more severe economic pressures are on the near horizon.

 

[Portofino]

That Sanlorenzo 57 in Spezia needs a whole refit to be fair, as I know people who have seen it. A serious refit will put you back plus or minus 200k on something like that, and you are still with under-powered GM 735hp for a 30 t plus yacht. At 260/280 you are looking possibly into getting a 62 with some serious Man 1100hp engines, and decent performance for a 35 ton yacht and a timeless design.
While the 57 is still a good looker a 62 is possibly one of the most beautiful boats made in its time, which still holds a good candle to most similar size yachts today.
A 135S at 80k is very decent, a serious buyer should take it as that is one for a fast sale.

If I was to come out of my Itama it would be for a more sedate floating apartment SL62 in my old age .
The similar build the similar position in the relatively pecking order of that type of boat , the similar stand and stare dock walker admiration .

Not there yet .

Still doing this aged 60;
Boarding 1-2-22

 

[ontheplane]

I am casually looking at the market now. Not much drop yet - but if Mortgages DO go to 6% that could start to change. It won’t be quick - but once prices start to tumble…….

However I must confess I thought the very comfortably off wouldn’t been affected, but we had a customer in the showroom the other day who is way beyond just “comfortable”. Money is usually not his biggest concern when buying.

However, chatting to him, he said that his 2 care homes have gone from £100,000 a year gas bill to nearly £1m predicted next year - so from making a nice profit, it’s looking like he’ll make a loss next year.

If this is replicated across the country, it’s going to make things very hard. People with good money may not have anything like so much, will spend much less.

if this carries on, we could be looking at a really destructive recession - I worry boat prices will be the least of anyones problems!

I actually really hope I am wrong!

 

[Greg2]

Chatting with people in the trade yesterday they say that they aren’t seeing any impact yet - quite the contrary, they described things as still being a bit mad and thought it strange given the constant stream of doom and gloom gleefully reported by the media. Car showrooms we visited earlier in the day said the same - demand remains high with supply chain related delays being the problem.

I wonder if things won’t be as bad as predicted or whether they will and we just aren’t seeing the impact yet. I have a horrible feeling that it might be the latter but then expectations about the impact of Covid on the boat market were confounded.
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[Portofino]

I am casually looking at the market now. Not much drop yet - but if Mortgages DO go to 6% that could start to change. It won’t be quick - but once prices start to tumble…….

However I must confess I thought the very comfortably off wouldn’t been affected, but we had a customer in the showroom the other day who is way beyond just “comfortable”. Money is usually not his biggest concern when buying.

However, chatting to him, he said that his 2 care homes have gone from £100,000 a year gas bill to nearly £1m predicted next year - so from making a nice profit, it’s looking like he’ll make a loss next year.

If this is replicated across the country, it’s going to make things very hard. People with good money may not have anything like so much, will spend much less.

if this carries on, we could be looking at a really destructive recession - I worry boat prices will be the least of anyones problems!

I actually really hope I am wrong!

The guy who supplies the solid fuel ( wood pellets ) heating boilers will replace him in the marina , after outbidding the mortgage broker / fixer and the insolvency practitioner , private GP , surgeons and dentists .

The money is out there from covid furlough, savings , and a decade or so of QE .It’s this that’s fuelled spending stimutated demand Eg cars .Ok the supply side woes just make it worse .But they need access to the dosh in the first place to enter the showroom or boat show .

Its just the distribution that’s tweaking ( of the extra Billions sloshing about in the money supply ) as some loose £ s others will gain £ s .

 

[Bigplumbs]

The guy who supplies the solid fuel ( wood pellets ) heating boilers will replace him in the marina , after outbidding the mortgage broker / fixer and the insolvency practitioner , private GP , surgeons and dentists .

The money is out there from covid furlough, savings , and a decade or so of QE .It’s this that’s fuelled spending stimutated demand Eg cars .Ok the supply side woes just make it worse .But they need access to the dosh in the first place to enter the showroom or boat show .

Its just the distribution that’s tweaking ( of the extra Billions sloshing about in the money supply ) as some loose £ s others will gain £ s .

I cant believe there is actually someone still banging on about Furlough

 

[Bigplumbs]

given the constant stream of doom and gloom gleefully reported by the media.
.

I stopped watching, Reading or listening to any so called News in Jan 2020 for this very reason and I feel far better for it. I would urge others to do the same....... People say 'but I need to know what is going on' The truth is they don't

 

[oldgit]

Speaking to somebody over beer last night, he was invited to a Range Rover dealership for canapes and the loan of a car for the day.
Try before you buy ?
On returning the vehicle he did ask, if he placed a order for a vehicle to his particular spec, how long before delivery.......12- 18 months.

 

[James jameson]

I stopped watching, Reading or listening to any so called News in Jan 2020 for this very reason and I feel far better for it. I would urge others to do the same....... People say 'but I need to know what is going on' The truth is they don't

The media have a lot to answer for, they just go from one “Crisis“ to the next.
They bombard bad us and exaggerate the worst case of every little thing blowing it up
I also very much limit my intake of “ news “ as I’ve come to not believe half of what we’re told

 

[Mr Googler]

as I’ve come to not believe half of what we’re told

just like on here then ?

 

[Mr Googler]

On boat prices…… mines up for sale. I said to my expert and very well respected broker what do you think it should go on for?

He gave his figure and the words out of my mouth where “it’s never worth that!”

Being the seller I said go for it. A bit of interest but no feet on the deck. I messaged him a week back and we have reduced the price to something a little closer but I still expect to sell for under the current asking.

Now……I’ve been playing this game for quite a few years. I’m a realist and I’m not precious about things. The right price is where everyone is unhappy just enough ? I do think things are cooling off but that’s understandable and probably a good thing ( I say that as a seller!) Some of the boat prices have been mental in recent times