Boat prices starting to fall

[paradave]

On boat prices…… mines up for sale. I said to my expert and very well respected broker what do you think it should go on for?

He gave his figure and the words out of my mouth where “it’s never worth that!”

Being the seller I said go for it. A bit of interest but no feet on the deck. I messaged him a week back and we have reduced the price to something a little closer but I still expect to sell for under the current asking.

Now……I’ve been playing this game for quite a few years. I’m a realist and I’m not precious about things. The right price is where everyone is unhappy just enough ? I do think things are cooling off but that’s understandable and probably a good thing ( I say that as a seller!) Some of the boat prices have been mental in recent times

I sold mine last week for 25% more than I’d paid for it, 3 years ago. I suspect things are cooling but they’re nowhere near where they were pre covid as far as I can see.

 

[Time Out]

Speaking to somebody over beer last night, he was invited to a Range Rover dealership for canapes and the loan of a car for the day.
Try before you buy ?
On returning the vehicle he did ask, if he placed a order for a vehicle to his particular spec, how long before delivery.......12- 18 months.

Yup but before you even get to that they ask new or pre owned sir at the front desk.

That said who puts a Costco next to a Land Rover dealership. I went to get a six pack of bog roll and came out with a 12 month old Discovery ….

 

[oldgit]

I went to get a six pack of bog roll and came out with a 12 month old Discovery ….

2nd Law of boating.
Never ever go into a chandlery, just for a "Quick look round" ?
Q. Best time to walk past the chandlery
A. Sunday. When its Closed. !

 

[Cheery]

Speaking to somebody over beer last night, he was invited to a Range Rover dealership for canapes and the loan of a car for the day.
Try before you buy ?
On returning the vehicle he did ask, if he placed a order for a vehicle to his particular spec, how long before delivery.......12- 18 months.

A relative went to a local dealership in June where he'd bought his last 2 RRs. He put a £1k deposit down with no date for delivery.

 

[ontheplane]

I think the key is “confidence” and “need”

mid confidence is low, you don’t “need” a boat. So let’s be honest, if things get too tight, something has to give and in SOME cases that might be the boat. Will be interesting to revisit this thread in 12 months - see where we are…

 

[jrudge]

Yup but before you even get to that they ask new or pre owned sir at the front desk.

That said who puts a Costco next to a Land Rover dealership. I went to get a six pack of bog roll and came out with a 12 month old Discovery ….

That will be the one on the A316 then. They never called me back in spite of driving in with a Range Rover. I bought a Porsche ( whose dealers are no better)

 

[Time Out]

That will be the one on the A316 then. They never called me back in spite of driving in with a Range Rover. I bought a Porsche ( whose dealers are no better)

Indeed, my first visit (when it opened) resulted in no callback. Stupidly I went back in whilst at Costco and the rest is history. I think I got lucky with the salesman, it's not been plain sailing with the rest of the organisation. BUT (touching lots of wood) the car has been great and already has four Alps trips under its belt since Feb. Sorry fred drift !

 

[jrudge]

Mine was faultless other than the entertainment system re setting. It took them 2 years to solve it!

 

[Hot Property]

I sold mine last week for 25% more than I’d paid for it, 3 years ago. I suspect things are cooling but they’re nowhere near where they were pre covid as far as I can see.

You need a new broker! I sold mine for 56% more than I paid for it over the same period! (Bought 16k sold 25k)

 

[ontheplane]

Mine was faultless other than the entertainment system re setting. It took them 2 years to solve it!

So not at all faultless then - a fault that took 2 years to fix in fact. Why I will never buy another LR / RR product - look good, high “apparent” build quality, utter rubbish actual build quality!

It makes me laugh - we had a customer come in the other day with a RR sport - his exact words were:-

“I don’t know why people say RR are bad, we haven’t had any issues with ours except the stereo keeps cutting out...”

To which his wife replied..... “well and that time we broke down on our way to Eastbourne, and the time it wouldn’t start when we needed to go to (name) wedding.

“Oh yeh” he said,” and that one, well two, times it conked out because it had run out of fuel even though the gauge said 1/4 full”......

So, perfectly reliable, except when it completely wasn’t!

 

[ontheplane]

Reopened this thread as noticed now prices are genuinely starting to fall. Still some dopes out there, but the boats I am interested in (25-30 ft sport cruiser at £25-35k) are noticeably softening.... Sealine S23 / 24 types were £40k + now £28-40k

26 / 28 footers that were 45k are now 35-45 and so on....

Be very interesting to see where they end up, but they will never be pre-pandemic prices again I agree

 

[Mr Googler]

September/October will be the telling time

I’m on the look out for another project of which there are a few….just not a project prices just yet

I have seen a tarted up XPS 34 wrapped in grey that was on for 65k 12 months ago….now 26.5k and another tarted up 37 that was 60k now low 40’s.

 

[Moonbeam]

We are looking to buy our first power boat since selling our yacht last year. So we very much have our head in the game.

The rising cost of new boats, post covid, has been one of the justifications for some crazy second hand prices. We are not looking to buy new, so I'm not on top of those prices, but I've noticed some new boat prices now being discounted, although this just might be the 'Tesco Trick' New boats for sale in United Kingdom - YachtWorld

I've also seen a couple of used boats come back on the market that sold about a year to 18 months ago around the £100k mark, both are asking about 10% less now than when they were last on the market. By no means the only examples I have seen.

Speaking with Brokers... they generally seem to agree that the old standard of 'offers of 10% below asking price' are now back in town.

But... there is still strong demand for the nice examples of in demand boats that do not come along often, these ones seem to buck the above.

Very difficult to see where the market will go as there are still so many factors at play. For example... I could easily see the UK re-entering the EU VAT customs area within the next fives years which would put used boats here back on a par with Europe... but that's a whole other story.

 

[ari]

Speaking with Brokers... they generally seem to agree that the old standard of 'offers of 10% below asking price' are now back in town.

Did they tell you that the two best days of boat ownership are the day you buy it and the day you sell it too?

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

I think just as in 2021 we hit Covid wave where everyone wanted a boat, now some peeps have rediscovered the before 2020-Covid-19 life is back, where a boats and its expense are being thrown out, at least for those that have not been infected by the BoatBug. So the coming fall some good prices will be on the way from these folks.
2023 will be an interesting adjust to reality year, especially from boat builders and dealers who have created a bubble demand type of sphere.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Interesting to see how this all plays out. Sold our boat this year for more* than we paid for it new, three years ago. Agreed a small reduction on the asking price, but happy with where we landed.

Boatless at the moment and likely to remain so for a couple of years, but hope to get back one day.


* manmaths detectable in trace quantities…

 

[Portofino]

I think just as in 2021 we hit Covid wave where everyone wanted a boat, now some peeps have rediscovered the before 2020-Covid-19 life is back, where a boats and its expense are being thrown out, at least for those that have not been infected by the BoatBug. So the coming fall some good prices will be on the way from these folks.
2023 will be an interesting adjust to reality year, especially from boat builders and dealers who have created a bubble demand type of sphere.

Adding to this^ I think the demographics of potential buyers has changed or changing or about to change .= it’s shrinking .I mean young kids these days aren’t just coming through into this leisure activity.
Advent of the internet / social media and short term financial security means they prefer to sample rent not buy .
They don’t want the ties that ownership brings esp a boat .They prefer the Facebook algorithms to pop up on there feeds air B n B or other similar deals in where ever .In the digital world as much fun can be sought and had without the hassle or outlay of capital into a boat .

^^ that’s the mind set .
Toss in real reality of interest rates shoving up existing borrowing cost + “cost of living crisis “ whittling down there spare cash then boating gets further regression as an activity.

The baby boomers gen are slowly dying off ( us on the forum ) …….but theres no one coming up behind us .
= A net shrinkage of buyers .

You could say this for golf clubs , game shooting , gentlemens clubs + societies , trial bike clubs , brass bands …..all sorts of activity thats NOT digitally orientated .

 

[henryf]

There is no one size fits all in the used boat market. At the lower end there are boats whose value is potentially less that the cost of keeping them afloat. These boats might get sold when nothing else is available but struggle when there is more to choose from.

At the opposite end of the spectrum there will also be new boats that get sold when more desirable models have too long a lead time. When the more desirable boats become available the less desirable ones will struggle to find a home.

New boat prices have risen over the past few years. Brexit, Covid, wars and general inflation have all conspired to send list prices upwards and that’s not going change, you’re not going to wake up one day and find the big players announcing reductions. It’s a world stage so even if UK PLC falls on its knees other markets still have an appetite.

Used prices will always be a proportion of new so if new prices have risen so will used, certainly with boats new enough to tether the link twixt new and old.

The boating magazines tend to be quite gentle with their reviews. I’ve seen some absolute horror stories over the years but read the review and butter wouldn’t melt. I can think of one boat that took the skin off my back as I walked up onto the flybridge but the review said it was great

Similarly there’s stuff that leaves you scratching your head price wise. You can’t imagine anyone paying the asking MRP. Like the badly designed boats they just don’t get sold, certainly not in volume. These will suffer in the used market.

With that in mind there will be some models whose dealers are over hyping the reality a bit claiming long waiting lists when actually there are quite a few stock boats. That means list price might not actually be list price.

There are other instances where genuinely you have to pay list price and wait in line. Those boats will retain value in the used market because of genuinely strong desire. You have to assume a degree of depreciation but 10 years down the line new list will have shot up taking some of the sting out of the tail.

So I’m not sure you can generalise and say the market is up or down a specific percentage.

 

[Zing]

We are looking to buy our first power boat since selling our yacht last year. So we very much have our head in the game.

The rising cost of new boats, post covid, has been one of the justifications for some crazy second hand prices. We are not looking to buy new, so I'm not on top of those prices, but I've noticed some new boat prices now being discounted, although this just might be the 'Tesco Trick' New boats for sale in United Kingdom - YachtWorld

I've also seen a couple of used boats come back on the market that sold about a year to 18 months ago around the £100k mark, both are asking about 10% less now than when they were last on the market. By no means the only examples I have seen.

Speaking with Brokers... they generally seem to agree that the old standard of 'offers of 10% below asking price' are now back in town.

But... there is still strong demand for the nice examples of in demand boats that do not come along often, these ones seem to buck the above.

Very difficult to see where the market will go as there are still so many factors at play. For example... I could easily see the UK re-entering the EU VAT customs area within the next fives years which would put used boats here back on a par with Europe... but that's a whole other story.

I’m in the same position, looking eagerly and talking to brokers. The market is nuts, red hot from my perspective.

 

[ontheplane]

Adding to this^ I think the demographics of potential buyers has changed or changing or about to change .= it’s shrinking .I mean young kids these days aren’t just coming through into this leisure activity.
Advent of the internet / social media and short term financial security means they prefer to sample rent not buy .
They don’t want the ties that ownership brings esp a boat .They prefer the Facebook algorithms to pop up on there feeds air B n B or other similar deals in where ever .In the digital world as much fun can be sought and had without the hassle or outlay of capital into a boat .

^^ that’s the mind set .
Toss in real reality of interest rates shoving up existing borrowing cost + “cost of living crisis “ whittling down there spare cash then boating gets further regression as an activity.

The baby boomers gen are slowly dying off ( us on the forum ) …….but theres no one coming up behind us .
= A net shrinkage of buyers .

You could say this for golf clubs , game shooting , gentlemens clubs + societies , trial bike clubs , brass bands …..all sorts of activity thats NOT digitally orientated .

All the above is true - but there is another factor - house prices.

When I were a lad (a while ago now) - I bought my first house at 24 with a 30% deposit and all my mates were doing the same at similar ages with 10-20% deposits. Interest rates were 14% but the mortgages were so much smaller back then, my repayment mortgage was £200 on a 3 bed house on a £20k salary.... a house was about 2 x the average salary (maybe 3 x).

So, now a 3 bed house is more like £300,000 average salaries are £30-35k and a 10% deposit will be £30k. The mortgage will be £1200-1500... so in reality, this generation coming through are going to struggle a little....

Now some will of course inherit money from their parents - but in reality, are there going to be the numbers of people wanting to spend the spiralling cost of boating? As said above, it seems to me that this generation aren’t interst d in anything that’s not on their phone......

I do see a rise in boat hire / shared ownership type things, where people can just choose to use a boat when they want (although they will have to be a blimmin’ site cheaper than the ones I’ve seen to be attractive) but these clubs will buy new / nearly new.... so will there be the demand for the 15 year old boats there is now?

I play table tennis, it’s a dying sport, everyone in our league is 40+ and the league is dying. Many other sports and hobbies are the same - so it will be very interesting.

I’m predicting that the market WILL soften back to pre-pandemic levels IF (and only if) interest rates stay high for another 2 years, but if they go back down to the 0.5% type levels I doubt it will happen and the softening will be much more gentle...