Blue water cruising boat . . .

[ashtead]

The one feature that lets down the older Moody is the majority seem to have in mast reefing which I would tend to avoid in an older boat . Also a self tacking headsail with 2 headsails does assist I suspect in making life simpler along with some power winches and bow thruster . The op might find it simpler just to draw up a list of features which suit intended usage and see what fits the box as an alternate way of looking around.

 

[Graham376]

The one feature that lets down the older Moody is the majority seem to have in mast reefing which I would tend to avoid in an older boat . Also a self tacking headsail with 2 headsails does assist I suspect in making life simpler along with some power winches and bow thruster . The op might find it simpler just to draw up a list of features which suit intended usage and see what fits the box as an alternate way of looking around.

The late 80s early 90s 376s and smaller boats came with slab as standard and in-mast as option, whereas the larger boats were the opposite with in-mast as standard and slab as an option so, not all the same. Having seen 3 boats of different makes with jammed mains, I wouldn't want in-mast although many older folks prefer it for ease of sail handling.

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

Thanks for all the replys ! Very helpful - keep-em coming.

Kurrawong_Kid. Thank you for you views on OH - they seem ot be boat - apart from the srorage issuse that people speak highly of. Did you have any issues re the ingress of water the rudder?

At last insurance survey it was reported that the moisture readings were high in the rudder but the surveyor added that this was common to many boats and I should maintain an eye for potential delamination at the edges .Should I see some remedial action would be needed. Until then he thought it best to leave as it was"

 

[Wansworth]

Having lived on a boat in Galicia,no super hot in summer as a suggestion whatever you get double up on ventilation possibilities,more hatches,wind sails and overall awning for windless heat.

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

Had to Google the oyster 37 to see what it looks like.
Here is an older thread
Oyster Heritage 37
I can see its resemblance to a rustler 36.
I can see that a awb offers a more modern spacious interior and cockpit and in nice weather performs well.
The older more traditional blue water boat often offers more storage and can carry more weight without affecting performance but less interior volume.
As the winds and waves increase the older boat comes into its own in terms of quality of ride.
What boat to choose ? That is a really hard choice to make.

Dont forget the Heritage 37 and vintage Rustler 36 have deep and narrow cockpits, much safer in rough seas than the wide and shallow cockpits of AWB’s of the same size with aft cabins under the cockpit floor.

 

[Rappey]

vintage Rustler 36

Vintage? They are still in production ! Not many boats that can claim nearly 40 yrs of production.

 

[duncan99210]

You make some sweeping generalisations. Why did you only look at tatty old boats? There are some fantastic old boats out there but don't expect to get them for a song just because they are old. Keeping an old boat looking like a new boat takes time and money. The cost of new engines, rigging, new paint, teak, etc is a significant investment.
If you bought a high volume modern AWB compared to a lower volume old boat of the same length then of course your AWB will have more internal volume. How much extra did the new AWB cost you for the extra space? May be you could have considered a larger old boat to give you the same internal volume and space as your modern AWB. You would have got a sea kindly motion and lots of storage. If you are marina based this might not work for you as you will have larger fees but if you spend life at anchor the comfort of a heavier hull takes some beating.
Our heavy old boat regularly out paces modern AWBs. Not all old boats are slow
We all have our own ideas of what we want out sailing and our boats. I do get it that many want a shiny new AWB but there are many that wouldnt want one as a gift. It isnt personal its just a different set of priorities.

I looked at the older boats that I could afford. The prices for the older boats at the time were eye watering and in my price bracket they were uniformly tatty (despite being described as “in good condition for age”) and all needed money spent on bringing the ancient electronics up to date, dealing with worn out upholstery and soon. And that was before addressing items such as engines, standing rigging, sails etc. At the time, the mystique attached to these makes of boats was such that it led to inflated prices for them.
My AWB cost me £10k LESS than the prices being demanded for the older boats and it needed next to nothing spending on it before we set off. I didn’t buy a ”shiny new AWB”: I bought a 9 year old boat for about 50% of its new price so I got a good deal more boat for my money plus it was more or less ready to go. If I’d bought an older boat, it would have taken me six months or more to bring it up to a usable condition plus needing a good deal of cash.
I never said that older boats are slow. I said that my AWB needs to be reefed early and deep to match the weather in comparison to the sail plans and hull forms on some older boats which need a greater sail area to keep the boat moving. That’s not a criticism, it’s an observation. I then said that this need to reef early may translate into a misunderstanding of an AWBs ability to cope with weather. If you try to keep too much sail up on most AWBs they will misbehave in a fairly alarming manner: in contrast older boats tend to be more forgiving and also tend to need a bit more sail to keep them moving in the same conditions. So if you’re used to an older boat and try sailing an AWB but are reluctant to reef early then don’t be surprised if the boat doesn’t like it.
Just to put things into context, I keep a Hurley 18 in Mylor. It’s a lovely sea kindly boat which is great for pottering about the place. It sails well and is very forgiving in the weird winds of the Fal estuary. I do appreciate older boats and the thickness of the layout of the Hurley puts me in mind of a brick outhouse. But it predates my Bavaria by 30 years and it shows. The Bavaria is properly engineered, takes advantage of 30 years worth of understanding of building boats with GRP: in contrast the Hurley is effectively a wooden boat built of GRP. No harm in that but it does make direct comparisons difficult.

 

[Minchsailor]

Well, I was keeping my head down, but I have a Rustler 36 (which incidentally, has been around the world with a previous owner), so I am biased. However they are bit cramped compared to a more modern design, and probably not that suited to days in a marina in the Med, but difficult to beat for 40-50 days non-stop across the Pacific

 

[ashtead]

A Rustler 42 might be just the boat for the OP but slightly out of budget . They certainly look lovely though but like Bowman a premium price for say a 2007 boat .

 

[geem]

I looked at the older boats that I could afford. The prices for the older boats at the time were eye watering and in my price bracket they were uniformly tatty (despite being described as “in good condition for age”) and all needed money spent on bringing the ancient electronics up to date, dealing with worn out upholstery and soon. And that was before addressing items such as engines, standing rigging, sails etc. At the time, the mystique attached to these makes of boats was such that it led to inflated prices for them.
My AWB cost me £10k LESS than the prices being demanded for the older boats and it needed next to nothing spending on it before we set off. I didn’t buy a ”shiny new AWB”: I bought a 9 year old boat for about 50% of its new price so I got a good deal more boat for my money plus it was more or less ready to go. If I’d bought an older boat, it would have taken me six months or more to bring it up to a usable condition plus needing a good deal of cash.
I never said that older boats are slow. I said that my AWB needs to be reefed early and deep to match the weather in comparison to the sail plans and hull forms on some older boats which need a greater sail area to keep the boat moving. That’s not a criticism, it’s an observation. I then said that this need to reef early may translate into a misunderstanding of an AWBs ability to cope with weather. If you try to keep too much sail up on most AWBs they will misbehave in a fairly alarming manner: in contrast older boats tend to be more forgiving and also tend to need a bit more sail to keep them moving in the same conditions. So if you’re used to an older boat and try sailing an AWB but are reluctant to reef early then don’t be surprised if the boat doesn’t like it.
Just to put things into context, I keep a Hurley 18 in Mylor. It’s a lovely sea kindly boat which is great for pottering about the place. It sails well and is very forgiving in the weird winds of the Fal estuary. I do appreciate older boats and the thickness of the layout of the Hurley puts me in mind of a brick outhouse. But it predates my Bavaria by 30 years and it shows. The Bavaria is properly engineered, takes advantage of 30 years worth of understanding of building boats with GRP: in contrast the Hurley is effectively a wooden boat built of GRP. No harm in that but it does make direct comparisons difficult.

It sounds like you got the perfect boat for your requirements.
I find it interesting when people talk of old boats and assume modern boats are better. For us, our old boat is just what we want and need. From a construction perspective, our boat built in 1980 is airex cored deck, airex cored in parts of the hull above the water line. The hull where it is cored is 1/4” glass, 1” airex, 1/4” glass. Its a strong hull and insulated against noise and temperature. The chainplates are 10mm 316 s/s. All the s/s was produced in an era before Chinese manufacturing and is far higher quality than the currently produced 316. It simply doesnt rust and needs negligible polishing. The downside of an old boat is that now she is 40 years old she needs a major refit. We decided to buy a new toerail and have the hull painted in Awlgrip. Neither of these are cheap.
The keel is 6000kg of encapsulated lead. She has great accommodation for two plus two guests with huge storage both below decks and on deck in a huge deck locker and lazarette
All the cleats and fittings have been polished and anodised and the chrome fittings have been re-chromed. I am polishing all the scratches out of the pulpit and pushpit s/s. I am making new windows. She will look like new when she floats again in the spring. The interior is having a make over. New varnish and new headlining panels. We recently replaced upholstery and curtains so the interior should look good.
I appreciate that lots of people wouldn't be happy doing this work or having the expense but being retired I need to have something to do over the winter. Its our first UK winter since 2013?

 

[KompetentKrew]

So this thread has followed the evolution of all such threads, and is now no different to any other: "they don't make 'em like that anymore" vs "plenty of ABWs cross oceans".

My advice to @NZJohn is to take a look at as many boats as possible, and see for yourself. No doubt at some point a boat will just "speak" to you, and then you will know.

My bias is towards the high quality boats of the days of yore - an encapsulated keel and a skeg-hung rudder. I made an offer on a Nicholson 39 and exchanged contracts on a Trintella 38; I think both boats were made in the 1970's, both impressed me with their build quality. After the purchase of the latter fell through I looked at a Van De Stadt Caribbean, not expecting to like it very much, but because it was one of the few in the area that met my criteria. This is the boat from which I write you now, nearly 2 years later. I didn't realise until I inspected her that she has a bolt-on keel, and she also has a fin rudder; she was built by a small jachtwerf in the early 90's.

I advise against getting wedded to the idea of owning any make or model, before you do actually own it. Be flexible and openminded, give yourself more room for choice.

Despite being based in the Solent at the time I was looking for boats, I found few there that appealed to me; after viewing a Nicholson 39 in Chichester, I drove to Plymouth to look at another (the one I made an offer on). If you can spend a couple of weeks in the Netherlands you'll be able to easily and quickly view a very high number of suitable boats (search Boten Te Koop).

 

[Whiterose]

I’ve sailed on a few Contest yachts..( spent a fair amount of time at their yard in Medemblik) would recommend the older 42-44 foot boats as substantial BW cruisers

 

[Chae_73]

tad over budget but lots to like:

Breehorn 37 Used Boat for Sale 2003 | TheYachtMarket

 

[KompetentKrew]

I’ve sailed on a few Contest yachts..( spent a fair amount of time at their yard in Medemblik) would recommend the older 42-44 foot boats as substantial BW cruisers

I didn't like the 38, which seemed small and cramped compared to the Trintella 38, Nicholson 39 or my current 40'er. I'm 6'2", so maybe was just a lack of headroom in the salon. I believe this model has been in production quite a long time, so clearly it is a beauty in the eyes of others. Which reminds me that I do need an eye test.

I can't remember how many I looked at - just one, or a couple? There were at least three listed for sale in the Netherlands in early 2018, when I was shopping. This was one of them (I'm sure I didn't view it, though).

 

[ashtead]

I’ve sailed on a few Contest yachts..( spent a fair amount of time at their yard in Medemblik) would recommend the older 42-44 foot boats as substantial BW cruisers

I believe that there was one for sale on Jonics website which looked quite attractive -if in market I would certainly look at Contest and did look round a secondhand one at Soton but slightly out of budget even used but worth a look around surely .

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I’ve sailed on a few Contest yachts..( spent a fair amount of time at their yard in Medemblik) would recommend the older 42-44 foot boats as substantial BW cruisers

But double the OP budget.
I agree they are quality boats.

 

[Rappey]

When you’ve found your ideal boat, don’t forget to add a budget for a replacement

Could it not be possible that some items have already been upgraded or replaced?
Many older boats such as a nicholson 35 were fitted with high end equipment and some 40 yrs later is still working and will be for many years to come.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

My wife and I looking to buy a second hand blue water cruiser. This is not an area we are that experienced in. So we are looking at 37-42 feet that is easily sailed short handed. Speed isn't the highest priority for us and it doesn't need to be in the modern mould of looking like an up-market caravan in the interior. Comfort at sea and safety are our two biggest priorities. Our budget is in the up to £90k range.

You can get a really nice Prout 37 Snowgoose for that money with £10-20k left over to spend on upgrades. Not nimble for a catamaran, but bombproof, and designed for blue water sailing.

 

[duncan99210]

Could it not be possible that some items have already been upgraded or replaced?
Many older boats such as a nicholson 35 were fitted with high end equipment and some 40 yrs later is still working and will be for many years to come.

The problem with many older boats is not that the original deck gear is shot: much of it won’t be and there’s a fair chance that if the boat‘s been looked after what is there won’t need replacement. Rather the problems lie with electronics, (often what‘s fitted is legacy kit which will need replacement), the engine and the domestic gear (water pumps, showers, lighting and so on which may well need attention or upgrading to be fit for extended use.
It really is a case of looking very closely at what you want from the boat, the level of creature comforts required and what items you may be prepared to compromise on. Then look at any boat you’re considering with that mental checklist in your mind and assess the boat against it. You may strike lucky and all the items on the checklist are met (or there’s a reasonable level of compromise) but in most instances you will need to look at the list and ascribe honest costs to sorting the identified deficiencies out before you commit to the boat. And by deficiencies I don’t mean the sort of things you pay a surveyor to spot: I mean those items which would be fine in a boat used for the odd holiday but are not acceptable in a liveaboard/long distance cruiser.

 

[geem]

The problem with many older boats is not that the original deck gear is shot: much of it won’t be and there’s a fair chance that if the boat‘s been looked after what is there won’t need replacement. Rather the problems lie with electronics, (often what‘s fitted is legacy kit which will need replacement), the engine and the domestic gear (water pumps, showers, lighting and so on which may well need attention or upgrading to be fit for extended use.
It really is a case of looking very closely at what you want from the boat, the level of creature comforts required and what items you may be prepared to compromise on. Then look at any boat you’re considering with that mental checklist in your mind and assess the boat against it. You may strike lucky and all the items on the checklist are met (or there’s a reasonable level of compromise) but in most instances you will need to look at the list and ascribe honest costs to sorting the identified deficiencies out before you commit to the boat. And by deficiencies I don’t mean the sort of things you pay a surveyor to spot: I mean those items which would be fine in a boat used for the odd holiday but are not acceptable in a liveaboard/long distance cruiser.

I agree entirely. When we bought our 1980 boat she had a new Perkins engine (M92B) and was fully fitted out with Raymarine electronics. Two large chartplotters, below decks autopilot and nine Raymarine instruments. These things would have been big ticket items has we needed to do the replacement.