Beta Marine 14

[DangerousPirate]

Hi guyys,
I got a beta 14 in my nicholson 30. It's a 3,5t racer cruiser, so I don't think it's overly heavy or anything. Yet I can't find the issue with the engine and why I don't get good speeds out of it. In calm seas with no winds, I only make 4,5 knot at most under full throttle, which to me seems just not very fast. I'd expect to push at hull speed, but maybe I am wrong.

Any ideas how I can find out what the issue is? Not sure exactly hw old the engine is tbh, the previous owner couldn't tell me, but I know the boat originally came with a 10hp Volvo, don't know exactly which one. Because of that I had a friend point out that the prop might just not be up to spec, that's something I want to try when I lift the boat out next time. It's some folding one, but can't tell exactly with it being in the water right now. From the looks of it, the hull is very clean when I look down the pontoon (the water here is pretty clear at times), the antifouling was fresh when I got the boat but I have not actually seen the dry underside in 8 months. This might be slowing me down, but I doubt it would be that much.

What else can I look for? The engine is well kept and it was serviced regularly before I bought it, too. Now I have replaced all filter and replaced the fuel lines recently.

Engine runs fine now, doesn't seem to be a fuel issue. As mentioned, possibly the prop, but what else should I check out?

 

[V1701]

By the sounds of it there is no issue with the engine itself. You might get a bit more speed with a different prop but I think most of us would be happy(ish) with SOG of 4.5 knots. I've had both Beta 10 & 14, they're the same engine, if I remember correctly the 10 is limited to 2000rpm the 14 will rev to 2500. What's the rpm when you're running flat out? What's the LWL? One of the propeller blades might be stuck? There are lots of variables to factor in. If you work it out theoretical hull speed I don't think it would be a lot more than 4.5...

 

[earlybird]

The Beta14 produces max. power at 3600rpm, so it should reach this, or a bit less, at WOT. Anything significantly different will reduce max. boat speed. A folding prop. such as a Radice might reduce performance, esp if 2-bladed. I'd expect a bit more than 4.5 kn. from the boat / engine combination but not a lot.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Is your engine reaching maximum revs? (about 3500) You haven’t mentioned the revs when you are getting 4.5 knt.
My old Beta 10 used to be easily able to push my Invicta 26 long keel to 6 knts so would have thought that a 14 should at least get you 5.5 in your Nic’.

 

[zoidberg]

What differences are there between the Nichi 30 and the 303 - apart from 1%...?

 

[ridgy]

I once had an Elizabethan 29 so shorter waterline than yours with an 11hp vetus and I got 5.5 out of it so you're right to question it. Was a 3 bladed fixed prop though.

 

[DangerousPirate]

The Beta14 produces max. power at 3600rpm, so it should reach this, or a bit less, at WOT. Anything significantly different will reduce max. boat speed. A folding prop. such as a Radice might reduce performance, esp if 2-bladed. I'd expect a bit more than 4.5 kn. from the boat / engine combination but not a lot.

Yeah, not sure. With 14hp I would think it would push a finkeel 3,5t a bit faster than that.

Is your engine reaching maximum revs? (about 3500) You haven’t mentioned the revs when you are getting 4.5 knt.
My old Beta 10 used to be easily able to push my Invicta 26 long keel to 6 knts so would have thought that a 14 should at least get you 5.5 in your Nic’.

According to the tachometer it goes up to like 2200-2500, but I have been meaning to replace the v-belt as it's a little loose. So take the reading with a grain of salt.

What differences are there between the Nichi 30 and the 303 - apart from 1%...?

I don't know, but they look very different over water, judging by the picture from Sailboatdata.

I once had an Elizabethan 29 so shorter waterline than yours with an 11hp vetus and I got 5.5 out of it so you're right to question it. Was a 3 bladed fixed prop though.

I thought so, too, from a similar experience. My friend has a 33ft boat (forgot which one exactly) and he has a Beta16 and without full throttle, we still went 4-5 knots. And his boat is heavier than mine.

I am thinking of just buying a new prop, but not sure if a fixed one doesn't have any downsides like noticeable drag when under sail or something. Generally like the idea of a folding one, but not if that means loss in power.

 

[ash2020]

I have a Beta 14 in a Varne 27. It will happily do 5.5-6 knots. I did once ask the Beta tech department whether it was OK to cruise at 3,500rpm and he said yes - all day.
I used to have a heavy old Beneteau with a 10HP engine and went to a lot of trouble to find out why , when it was running at the quoted max revs , the forward motion was pathetic. We looked at everything and in the end found the culprit - a fouled prop, barnacles all over it.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

You need more information.
If you don't know the RPM then everything else is meaningless so the first thing to do is tighten your belt to no slip and see what the RPM is. If it's still at 2500 instead of 3500ish then start by checking the throttle cable. You could check this before adjusting the belt but better to have some values.
If the throttle is ok and when fully open you are still not getting close to max RPM then there is too much torque load in your drivetrain. This could be friction or prop load or both.
Just changing the prop randomly doesn't guarantee anything except the expense.

 

[Tranona]

I had a Nanni 14 in a similar displacement boat - it is far too small. You need to have 18hp to get hull speed rather than the 13 you have. I overcame some of this by fitting a 2.65:1 box and a 15" prop and got 5.5 maximum at 3600rpm.

From what you say you have the wrong prop if you cannot get over 2500rpm (7hp!) and 4.5 knots sounds OK at those revs.

However before you make any change you need to do some timed runs at 200 rpm intervals from 1800 onwards to as far as it will go. Then you need to find what gearbox reduction ratio you have (it will be either 2:1 or 2.65:1) and what size prop you have. There are programmes for calculating ideal prop sizes such as this one here vicprop.com/displacement_size_new.php

In reality though I doubt you will get much above 5 knots particularly if you have a 2:1 reduction as you can't swing a large enough prop to get the most iut of the limited power

 

[Pye_End]

The hull may be clean, but is the prop?

 

[DangerousPirate]

The hull may be clean, but is the prop?

Last time I looked, which was like a week ago, I could clearly see the prop and didn't see anything on it. But yeah, I think I'll get a new belt first and see what it tells me there

 

[RobinBirch]

Thinking about some of the easy things to eliminate - check: the fuel tank breather for any blockage, the exhaust elbow for any soot/crud build up, exhaust pipe for crud/delamination.

 

[LittleSister]

According to the tachometer it goes up to like 2200-2500, but I have been meaning to replace the v-belt as it's a little loose. So take the reading with a grain of salt.

Nowhere near enough revs. You need to get to 3,600 rpm to get the 13.5 hp your engine is capable of producing.

2,200 rpm will give you only 9hp - i.e. down by 1/3 on power
2,500 rpm will give you only 10hp - i.e down by over 1/4 on power

You need to find out why the engine won't rev. properly.

I doubt your V belt being loose will make a difference, but it must be completely knackered if you can't take up the slack by adjustment.

Check, in this order -

1) Does it get to 3,600 rpm OK in neutral?

2) FOULING - (only relevant if engine reaches 3,600 rpm in neutral) whether fouling of hull and/or prop, or e.g bag or rope round prop, is holding you back;

3) ENGINE SPEED CONTROL - (only relevant if engine does NOT reach 3,600 rpm in neutral) operate speed control lever on the engine itself directly by hand to see if it will now reach 3,600 rpm to establish whether your 'throttle control' cable is or is not moving it the engine speed control lever the full amount.

4) ENGINE - e.g. exhaust elbow, exhaust pipe, fuel supply (blocked filter or pick-up tube?), etc.

5) PROP (only relevant if engine reaches 3,600 rpm in neutral) do you have the correct prop size/pitch for the boat, engine and gearbox?

 

[Iliade]

4) ENGINE - e.g. exhaust elbow, exhaust pipe, fuel supply (blocked filter or pick-up tube?), etc.

etc:
- Air inlet system is often overlooked and is a cheap fix. Make sure it is clean throughout. If an air filter is present, try it with the filter removed.
- Loosen in turn both injector fuel supply gland nuts to see if both cylinders are firing properly.

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

Hi guyys,
I got a beta 14 in my nicholson 30. It's a 3,5t racer cruiser, so I don't think it's overly heavy or anything. Yet I can't find the issue with the engine and why I don't get good speeds out of it. In calm seas with no winds, I only make 4,5 knot at most under full throttle, which to me seems just not very fast. I'd expect to push at hull speed, but maybe I am wrong.

Any ideas how I can find out what the issue is? Not sure exactly hw old the engine is tbh, the previous owner couldn't tell me, but I know the boat originally came with a 10hp Volvo, don't know exactly which one. Because of that I had a friend point out that the prop might just not be up to spec, that's something I want to try when I lift the boat out next time. It's some folding one, but can't tell exactly with it being in the water right now. From the looks of it, the hull is very clean when I look down the pontoon (the water here is pretty clear at times), the antifouling was fresh when I got the boat but I have not actually seen the dry underside in 8 months. This might be slowing me down, but I doubt it would be that much.

What else can I look for? The engine is well kept and it was serviced regularly before I bought it, too. Now I have replaced all filter and replaced the fuel lines recently.

Engine runs fine now, doesn't seem to be a fuel issue. As mentioned, possibly the prop, but what else should I check out?

As already stated, the only difference between a "10 and 14" HP is the speed. This is adjusted Off Load at the governor speed lever adjacent to the shut off solenoid lever. Simply a lock nut and screw. I would check that this has been set to 3.500/3,700 Max. before diving into anything more complex. These figures are from BETA . I did it with same engine on their advice. As an aside, the the 10 and 14 ratings are meant for the Kubota engine being used intermittently (Dumper truck etc) or continuously (Generator etc.) the 10 being the continuous rating.

 

[zoidberg]

As already stated, the only difference between a "10 and 14" HP is the speed. This is adjusted Off Load at the governor speed lever adjacent to the shut off solenoid lever. Simply a lock nut and screw. I would check that this has been set to 3.500/3,700 Max. before diving into anything more complex. These figures are from BETA . I did it with same engine on their advice. As an aside, the the 10 and 14 ratings are meant for the Kubota engine being used intermittently (Dumper truck etc) or continuously (Generator etc.) the 10 being the continuous rating.

That suggests one would be £better off by buying/installing a Beta 10 unit - then adjusting the governor speed unit as above.

Or is there more to it....?

 

[Buck Turgidson]

That suggests one would be £better off by buying/installing a Beta 10 unit - then adjusting the governor speed unit as above.

Or is there more to it....?

My thoughts exactly. What’s the price difference?

 

[Tranona]

Price difference is small and the 14 has some small differences in equipment, particularly the oil pumpout. Beta aren't stupid and on the latest engines you cannot alter the settings on the speed control as that is set by Kubota at the factory. The warranty is invalidated if any changes are made to the factory settings.

 

[wingcommander]

Agree with comments above, can only add Beta will only guarantee a new install provided the engine will achieve max revs, is this low reving problem new or historic. I realise your engine is out of any warranty but may have been incorrectly proped from original install.