jonic
Well-Known Member
+1
Best Bluewater Cruising boats?
- Thread starter alant
- Start date
+1
Sinbad1951
Well-Known Member
Ooooh I want the Bene 57 with the Halberg Rassey Rig. Lol
Neil_Y
Well-Known Member
Having been through a Biscay winter storm, hove to for two nights and then sailed another 10,000nm in a year my old Bav 390 is a boat I would happily take anywhere. Sadly I sold her.
BobnLesley
Well-Known Member
So what is the''best one' ?? Its The One You Can Afford...
That sentiment works for me.
Most any well sorted yacht is capable of an E to W Atlantic during the crossing season, though certainly some will do it more comfortably/faster/easier than others and some will also offer a greater/lesser safety margin should unseasonable conditions appear, but to my mind, you ought to be more concerned about the crews ability/suitability for the trip than the boat's.
I also don't understand - as several posts appear to imply - why having been part of the ARC should in some way devalue a persons achievement in making the passage; we crossed independently, but before, during and since, we've met some very pleasant and equally competent sailors who came over on ARCs.
That sentiment works for me.
Most any well sorted yacht is capable of an E to W Atlantic during the crossing season, though certainly some will do it more comfortably/faster/easier than others and some will also offer a greater/lesser safety margin should unseasonable conditions appear, but to my mind, you ought to be more concerned about the crews ability/suitability for the trip than the boat's.
I also don't understand - as several posts appear to imply - why having been part of the ARC should in some way devalue a persons achievement in making the passage; we crossed independently, but before, during and since, we've met some very pleasant and equally competent sailors who came over on ARCs.
GrahamM376
Well-Known Member
I don't think it devalues their achievement, after all they've done something many dream about but will never get around to. Some use the ARC because they won't risk going it alone but many just like everything organised and the parties and don't mind spending the money.
OTOH I do think it's a far greater achievement going it alone without the backup.
tcm
...
Majority are catamarans in plenty of carib anchorages and elsewhere outside Europe. The ARC plows around majestically as the participants... once outside Europe... discover that their dinghy is laughably small, the outboard hopeless heavy 4-stroke, and nobody envies even the 60foot Oysters - they all loop around in the anchorages, but hubby (usually) is so very sure that PAH a cat's just not a proper boat! Eventually they visit lots of friend in catamarans, and realise that er, this is like living rather than camping. Mono's are fab boats and lots more soul-stirring... but living long-term in a mono (so-called blue water)means you'll be on board months if not years... is like a bad bedsit next to a motorway and a train line - not much room, precious little space for any style, and the chances of the surroundings staying horizontal for any length of time is somewhat at the mercy of every passing motorised vessel, big or small. Oh and of course note that those faster dinghies go anywhere at any speed, and there's not as much wash-minding as in Europe. Mono in Europe, Cat everywhere else is perhaps the answer? Hm, maybe?
Nonetheless that still means that the longer-range spare-engined smaller-draught, bigger-dinghy-carrying catamaran is better for distant blue water i.e. tropical trips.
Amongst ARC boats, the most noticeable change over the past ten or twenty years must be the increase in the number of catamarans taking part, and i think must now be limited cos of berthing in LP mean the cats are banished to the fishing dock. No such limits in Odyssey (yet) and better space in Arrecife for all boats, really.
Nonetheless that still means that the longer-range spare-engined smaller-draught, bigger-dinghy-carrying catamaran is better for distant blue water i.e. tropical trips.
Amongst ARC boats, the most noticeable change over the past ten or twenty years must be the increase in the number of catamarans taking part, and i think must now be limited cos of berthing in LP mean the cats are banished to the fishing dock. No such limits in Odyssey (yet) and better space in Arrecife for all boats, really.
tcm
...
The ARC entry fee of something under £1000 ... is entirely justified if you need a berth in the Canaries for any length of time - the berthing savings from being in Las Palmas (where you can't stay solo in November or much October) and where a 60footer costs under 25euros a night incl water and elec instead of nearer 55euros... means that the ARC entry fee is won back if staying just ONE month or more in the canaries. So please stop saying "spending that money" when it actually makes financial sense for most to pay the ARC fees and then be able park up in LAS Palmas marina for two months for the price of two weeks anywhere else.
For the extra achievement feeling, delay the rig inspection and then ouch find a new cable needed just before the start, dang, so wait till Wednesday to leave - but still make the EAP early arrivals party 14 days later.
Er backup from the ARC ?? hahah don't get me started. On one ARC trip I had a medical question (not serious, about which painkillers could we use from the massive drugfest er medical kit we had when one poor crew guy had nasty gout for a few days...) so emailed the ARC people, and then also emailed a medical journalist friend. Friend cam back within hours ... the ARC guys just didn't respond. I blogged cooee! etc and they didn't like that so they suggested I don't come on the world ARC which worked out very fab - another friggin money-grubbing adventure-fiasco where they book some nice big and cheap marinas - in some rotten areas where solo trip allows nice marina or anywhere really. And they leave on proscribed dates although these start to fizzle out as boats break down and break away. Fab example of the ARC backup is that they say in the notes that if you have an emergency, call MRCC or alternatively leave a message on their answerphone in Cowes haha. I wonder which one you'd choose? If you really seriously NEED backup on a transat, it won't come from the ARC organisers, sorry.
Here's a thought - after now THIRTY YEARS of organising rallies across oceans, watching what works, recording the accidents and mishaps ... that you could get some really quite fab information - who wouldn't buy a how-to book or books from ARC Publishing? Yet they have sadly learned not very much at all. The speakers are awful - Thought they would have an uber-skipper giving out the info and geeing everyone along - instead the speakers are totally inappropriately timid and dull, the seminars are pedestrian, and are all repeated or sometimes written afresh (but with no reference to previous stuff) from one year to the next - and always the speakers themselves keep "their" presentation information. As a result the ARC has not much if any IP.
There's a tick box questionnaire at the end of an ARC transat that must be filled in ASAP whilst at the same time as consuming the free rum brought to the boat upon arrival... and that YW then analyse all the drunkenly-filled info very seriously - i filled in the questionnaire for another boat, all total rubbish....
alant
Well-Known Member
double u
New Member
"...why having been part of the ARC should in some way devalue a persons achievement in making the passage..."
if you have to ask - you won't understand...
if you have to ask - you won't understand...
GrahamM376
Well-Known Member
Backup? Everything is organised for the entrants, berths booked, parties etc. Have no idea whether organised rescue boats or not but the knowledge that other boats are in the general vicinity if they have problems is why many people join.
Edit - Just been through TCM's post above, seems the main reason for joining is the cheap berthing
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alant
Well-Known Member
Backup? Everything is organised for the entrants, berths booked, parties etc. Have no idea whether organised rescue boats or not but the knowledge that other boats are in the general vicinity if they have problems is why many people join.
Edit - Just been through TCM's post above, seems the main reason for joining is the cheap berthing
Didn't think Sea Start operated that far out.
tcm
...
Didn't think Sea Start operated that far out.
They don't of course ... yet both the ARC and Odyssey gangs organise a day with a helicopter rescue demonstration. No idea why - perhaps to remind people what a helicopter looks like, cos they definitely won't see one for a while...
webcraft
Well-Known Member
Seven Spades
Well-Known Member
There are some awful comments here. People do the ARC for different reasons. I think that the majority do it for the fun of the social side and for no other reason. You only need to see the sheer numbers who have gone on multiple years to understand that they are not doing it that way because of lack of confidence. In most cases they will have crossed Biscay to get there which often will be a more hazardous journey than the ARC itself.
GrahamM376
Well-Known Member
Biscay was like a millpond on our 3 crossings. In some cases Arc entrants use the Rally Portugal so they have company much of the way.
stranded
Well-Known Member
Or maybe those 7 stone weaklings who attach themselves like succubae to rallies were simply not as fortunate as the superheroes on here who were blessed with total knowledge from the womb; who live in a mythical world where all they need are their nerves of steel; who have presumably built their own boats from trees they have grown themselves - god forbid they should have ever have paid someone else to do any of the work; who have only opinions, having never had to expose their weakness by asking someone for advice; who pooh pooh the use of charts made by other people because they just make sailing tooooo easy; who would rather ride out a hurricane at sea then duck into a marina; and of course would never, ever dream of carrying an EPIRB, or a DSC radio, or flares, because frankly, if you rely in any way on someone else to help you out of trouble, well, it wouldn't really be sailing at all.
Sadly, we can't all be as fortunate as these blessed few. But I bet we have better parties, whether on the ARC or any other time.
steve yates
Well-Known Member
Have to say, as a total beginner with zero sailing experience, while I can see the fun and social side of an arc, I wouldn't be interested in doing one at all. In my mind, and whats in there is only of real relevance to me, a mobhanded rally crossing would not feel like an adventure, and for me, feel less of an achievement than doing my own. I want to do it, singlehanded, one day, just to see if I can. Obviously they are all far more experienced and better sailors than me, and I can easily see that, but it doesn't make me think, wow, I wanna do that!
It doesn't feel like there has been awful comments, or slanging of arc rally participants on this thread to me. Surely for the same reason folk would feel it is a good thing to do, it's just as ok for others to feel it's not. As long as you are having fun either way, who cares?
Many years ago, I went to try an unclimbed face in the himalayas, just me and a mate, three porters under a sirdar I knew personally, to get our shit to basecamp, then just us to try the route alpine style, no fixed ropes.
We could have got a big team, and a load of sherpas, and fixed ropes and camps, but that was not the adventure we sought. (we failed miserably funnily enough
)Actually, that might be a good allegory, the Arc et al are the nautical equivalent of the adventure travel industry, perhaps the participants would probably go on an organised trekking or climbing holiday with Karakorum Experience or similar, (tho of course some are just canny enough to get the cheap marina fees) whereas the independent sailors might be more likely to just buy a ticket to a destination they are interested in, get a map and a guidebook, and go off trekking on their own or with their friends.
Both would be great fun, but only one would have any attraction to me personally.
GrahamM376
Well-Known Member
I'm not knocking those who want to join rallies, everyone to their own. Crossing the pond at less that 35,000 feet without trolly dolly service doesn't appear to me whatsoever, I find long passages boring. Certainly don't want this type of passage -
Calm leaving Las Palmas, even spotted 3 whales mooching past the boat for a nosey.
The trade winds kicked in with gusto and things were going well but the satphone wouldn't find a good enough signal for data, weather etc. This continued all the way. Fortunately I had SMS text weather provided by Stephanie Ball at meteogib.com every few days and very accurate grib analysis from the illustrious Mr David Shadrach watching over us from his nerve centre of operations in Lagos, who very kindly monitored our daily position and status. We are indebted to him.
The unplanned dogleg to Cabo Verde was when the wind vane rudder sheared off. This gave us a Beam reach in big seas and strong winds, however I wasn't happy to continue to Barbados with just the main autopilot. I didn't fancy having to hand steer. The WV rudder was held on with a safety lanyard so had to climb down the back ladder to retrieve it.
Got wind vane rudder repaired but The repair failed 300 miles west of CV. The main auto pilot failed at mid Atlantic and the jury rigged emergency tiller arm/tiller pilot failed 600 miles east of Barbados so 24/7 Hand steering for that last stretch after all. Our landfall was indeed a welcome sight . Arrived in port St Charles at night which has a dimly lit visitor dock with wobbly cleats. Not sure I would advocate night arrivals here. You can anchor but if you hit the coral, they fine you.
We had 35 kts and rough sea state leaving CV heavy seas with strong cross swells most of the trip, hence auto pilot failures. Fairly violent rolling action for first 3 days. Left CV with 2 other boats who arrived 24 hrs after us. We considered waiting for better conditions but nothing was on the horizon, besides there was no real bad weather around.
The boat stood up to it well but the equipment didn't.
stranded
Well-Known Member
Have to say, as a total beginner with zero sailing experience, while I can see the fun and social side of an arc, I wouldn't be interested in doing one at all. In my mind, and whats in there is only of real relevance to me, a mobhanded rally crossing would not feel like an adventure, and for me, feel less of an achievement than doing my own. I want to do it, singlehanded, one day, just to see if I can. Obviously they are all far more experienced and better sailors than me, and I can easily see that, but it doesn't make me think, wow, I wanna do that!
It doesn't feel like there has been awful comments, or slanging of arc rally participants on this thread to me. Surely for the same reason folk would feel it is a good thing to do, it's just as ok for others to feel it's not. As long as you are having fun either way, who cares?
Many years ago, I went to try an unclimbed face in the himalayas, just me and a mate, three porters under a sirdar I knew personally, to get our shit to basecamp, then just us to try the route alpine style, no fixed ropes.
We could have got a big team, and a load of sherpas, and fixed ropes and camps, but that was not the adventure we sought. (we failed miserably funnily enough
Oh, don't get me wrong - I have nothing but admiration (well maybe a tiny bit of jealousy) for the bold and the adventurous. But equally little time for those who belittle the achievement of others. Climbing Everest, whether as part of a commercial expedition or otherwise, seems to this non-climber like an enormous achievement. So does crossing the Atlantic - ARC or otherwise. Whether you're mid-Atlantic or half way to the summit, if something goes seriously wrong you will likely be reliant on others to get you out of the shit, and there would I imagine be very little in any difference whether you were on a rally/commercial expedition or not.
Your analogy sounds like something of a different order - I imagine unclimbed faces in the Himalayas to be more analogous to doing the north-west passage or something - not the difference between doing the sensible route across the Atlantic, as part of a rally or not.
double u
New Member
...talked to a few arc participants in my time (& to a few of the round-the-world-rally participants) & they admitted that the rallies bolstered their confidences & that it would have been "too much for them" to do it on their own...
everybody to his liking...
...how did this british "yacht-designer" put it so aptly: "grey people go everywhere & spoil everything!" - whoever happened into a place one of those rallies had just been through knows what he means...
everybody to his liking...
...how did this british "yacht-designer" put it so aptly: "grey people go everywhere & spoil everything!" - whoever happened into a place one of those rallies had just been through knows what he means...
