Best 32' bluewater sailboat - up to 14.000 pounds budget

[Tranona]

You are in a potentially grey area there. Much of the legislation and guidance talks about or assumes the subject of the transaction is physically in the EU. The importance of the location is that rates vary and responsibility for VAT is determined by where the boat is located.

I don't know whether that issue has been tested - and guess it is unlikely to come up in relation to low value transactions because nobody seems to be really interested. The key thing with an old boat where documentation is often sparse is to ensure you have a good Bill of Sale showing the transaction was between two EU private residents - and preferably a trail of previous similar transactions. If it were me, I would go for the belt and braces and sail the boat over to Greece so that you had marina receipts and a customs entry showing for the period of the transaction.

There are very few reports of officials being interested in VAT matters on old boats, probably because most boats don't have any issues. However, a chequered history with periods outside the EU is just the sort of thing that raises questions!

 

[Adrian_]

Well, with a good Bill of Sale and the transaction done between two EU nationals in front of a official from a EU country, I guess there's very little reason why any customs official would bother to dig for marina receipts, considering the boat is 30+ years old.

But all things considered, from a legal point of view, I think the whole thing would rather be in the grey area, as you put it, then in the black (read illegal) zone. After all we're talking about a boat buit in the EU and owned by a EU national. It's not like you're being asked to pay VAT on your car if you take a trip outside the EU... And even if you drive into the EU at the wheel of a car registered on someone else's name, if you show the EU registration papers and a purchase act made in the EU you're good to go, no one asks you to pay VAT...

 

[Tranona]

Not a valid comparison with a car. The VAT rules in respect of boats have all sorts of anomolies as the directive specifically names them as "being different" - perhaps anticipating the potential avoidance schemes that are rife in the high roller end of the market. These have odd effects on "ordinary" transactions and some of the rules such as this one are illogical and probably unenforceable.

The big problem that this is the only area of VAT law where an individual rather than a VAT registered entity can commit a VAT related offence. In other words the individual is responsible for paying the VAT and in theory any debt for unpaid VAT can also attach to the boat. So, you have a rock and a hard spot. The chances of it being an issue are probably very small and there does not seem to be any reliable information on cases to give a guide. On the other the consequences of being investigated could be very unpleasant and expensive.

On the one hand if you pay the VAT it eats into your meagre budget, on the other hand there will always be a question mark against the boat when potential buyers look at it. However, I would imagine most people buying and selling in these circumstances probably ignore the issue either through ignorance or simply because they are prepared to take the risk!

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

here's a more modern equivalent of your Nicolson correctly priced once haggling done, with full inventory for offshore cruising and it will go upwind!

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/yachts/she-32-c-CLI231

Brief satisfied?

 

[Ravi]

I read through this thread with great interest (since I am also looking for a budget boat) and was disapointed to see the threadcome to a shuddering halt with no conclusion. Adrian, if you are out there, what did you buy? !!!! Did you manage to do the required fettling without blowing your budget?

It would be great to know the outcome of your shopping exercise.

I am looking for something just above your budget for Med cruising (Greece) and, nearly a year on, it is interesting to see that many of the boats discussed in 2012 are still for sale - including the Neilson Moody 31s!

Rav.

 

[causeway]

Further to another thread on here the Carter 33 is a great Boat with plenty of room too.

 

[Tranona]

I read through this thread with great interest (since I am also looking for a budget boat) and was disapointed to see the threadcome to a shuddering halt with no conclusion. Adrian, if you are out there, what did you buy? !!!! Did you manage to do the required fettling without blowing your budget?

It would be great to know the outcome of your shopping exercise.

I am looking for something just above your budget for Med cruising (Greece) and, nearly a year on, it is interesting to see that many of the boats discussed in 2012 are still for sale - including the Neilson Moody 31s!

Rav.

There are always plenty of "budget" boats for sail in Greece, particularly the Ionian contact with the various brokers who operate in that area (Williams and Smithells, Pinnacle Yacht Sales, Gregs Yachts for example) will give you a starting point and a 2 week holiday at this time of year will give you plenty of opportunity to see for yourself.

Be aware though, that many older boats will have had a hard life and are probably for sale because the owners can no longer justify keeping them.

 

[jwilson]

There is a long list of Contessa 32s with big range of prices and also details here:
http://www.boatshop24.co.uk/searchresults.php?channel=&manufacturer=CONTESSA+32

Also look at a Vancouver 32.

As well as Contessa 32s, look at the similar designs, Elizabethans, some van de Stadts, etc.

Any Vancouver 32 at £14,000 will be a total disaster area - about £25,000 is pretty much the bottom end for one with a lot of miles and osmosis: good ones can go for £50,000+.

Given the parameters, possibly better not to look for specific models but for anything that fits the bill at that price, and then look at condition. The best bet might end up as being an early IOR 1/2 or 3/4 ton racer that has usable sails and a decentish engine, even if the interior needs some (maybe a lot of) tarting up. Bear in mind that a beamyish half ton/30-footish IOR racer will have more usable space inside than a narrow trad long-keeler, and many earlier IOR type boats had high ballast ratios with non-extreme keels. A tired but fairly sound UFO34 could well be found at £14,000. Put your parameters into Yachtworld advanced search and you will cover the brokerages fairly quickly, and trawl painfully slowly through the two main free ad sites.

The best bang for your buck in boat purchase can often be Florida: but it will cause you VAT problems cruising Europe (soluble with occasional visits to non-EU countries), and major difficulties trying to sell in the EU if you ever want to.

 

[PaulMcC]

I bought a UFO34 this summer for £15k in pretty good condition and with a lot of newish bits. Would still need a couple of thousand spending on stuff to make it blue water capable but the basic boat would definitely do the job.

 

[Tranona]

The best bang for your buck in boat purchase can often be Florida: but it will cause you VAT problems cruising Europe (soluble with occasional visits to non-EU countries), and major difficulties trying to sell in the EU if you ever want to.

But only if you are a non-EU resident. Temporary importation to do as you describe is only available for non-residents with boats registered outside the EU - that is genuine visitors.