Beneteau 760 steering and rudder problems

[broomfield]

Hi Broomfield - sheer brute force I'm afraid - I did renew it but I got the old one welded up by a local ship repair business for use as a spare but never had to use it.

You are welcome to it for the price of the postage if that helps - I am in UK on the South Coast

Thankyou for the offer l have purchased a new one to fit once l get the old one off .

 

[broomfield]

Hi Broomfield - sheer brute force I'm afraid - I did renew it but I got the old one welded up by a local ship repair business for use as a spare but never had to use it.

You are welcome to it for the price of the postage if that helps - I am in UK on the South Coast

Hi Paul l have finally managed to remove the Vetus Rudder arm under which is a coller where 2 earth cable are attached do you know how that colley is held in place ?

 

[Pleinmont]

Hi Paul l have finally managed to remove the Vetus Rudder arm under which is a coller where 2 earth cable are attached do you know how that colley is held in place ?

I'm pretty sure there's an allen key grub screw or something similar that grips onto the rudder. Can't remember exactly but I took the rudder stock off a few years ago for painting and it came off quite easily. They get rusty from the deck fitting above that drips now and again.
I think a few people have had them remade in stainless once the rust gets too bad.

 

[spray]

Hi, Sorry to revive this thread but today I have taken delivery of an 2006 Antares 760.
The rudder is very stiff and I have done what Plum suggests, disconnected the cable at the rudder stock end. the helm turns perfectly now but I am unsure exactly what next to do. Could someone please guide me? Will trying the emergency tiller identify a problem?

 

[Plum]

Hi, Sorry to revive this thread but today I have taken delivery of an 2006 Antares 760.
The rudder is very stiff and I have done what Plum suggests, disconnected the cable at the rudder stock end. the helm turns perfectly now but I am unsure exactly what next to do. Could someone please guide me? Will trying the emergency tiller identify a problem?

At least the steering mechanism is ok so its either a stilff rudderstock bearing or a misalignment between the main stock bearing and the bearing at the lower end in the skeg. From inside the aft locker with the steering cable removed it should not take much effort to move the rudder using the little steering arm at the top of the rudder stock. If that takes too much effort report back.

 

[spray]

At least the steering mechanism is ok so its either a stilff rudderstock bearing or a misalignment between the main stock bearing and the bearing at the lower end in the skeg. From inside the aft locker with the steering cable removed it should not take much effort to move the rudder using the little steering arm at the top of the rudder stock. If that takes too much effort report back.

Many thanks Plum. I will do as you suggest. A recent surveyor's report indicated that there was no visible damage and hammer soundings gave positive returns, so perhaps it is a stiff rudderstock bearing as you mentioned, is this an easy diy job?

 

[Plum]

Many thanks Plum. I will do as you suggest. A recent surveyor's report indicated that there was no visible damage and hammer soundings gave positive returns, so perhaps it is a stiff rudderstock bearing as you mentioned, is this an easy diy job?

I have not repaired a stiff rudder but I have dismantled the top bearing in order to renew the water seal which is straightforward to do and can be done with the boat in the water.

Edit: Removing that top bearing may highlight where the problem lies.

 

[spray]

I have not repaired a stiff rudder but I have dismantled the top bearing in order to renew the water seal which is straightforward to do and can be done with the boat in the water.

Edit: Removing that top bearing may highlight where the problem lies.

Thank you. I should have mentioned that the boat is out of the water and I did try to move the rudder after the cable was disconnected, it wouldn’t budge. Would it be easier at this stage to remove the skeg and check the lower bearing? I’ll take a photo later as the lower bearing had a spacer or washer which were not concentric with one another if this is relevant.

 

[Plum]

Thank you. I should have mentioned that the boat is out of the water and I did try to move the rudder after the cable was disconnected, it wouldn’t budge. Would it be easier at this stage to remove the skeg and check the lower bearing? I’ll take a photo later as the lower bearing had a spacer or washer which were not concentric with one another if this is relevant.

Oh yes, then if out of the water remove the lower bearing. As you have probably seen, part way along the metal skeg is a half-lap join held together with 2 screws so should be an easy job to remove that aft section. Your description of the non concentric spacer is worrying.....

 

[Paul1962]

Thank you. I should have mentioned that the boat is out of the water and I did try to move the rudder after the cable was disconnected, it wouldn’t budge. Would it be easier at this stage to remove the skeg and check the lower bearing? I’ll take a photo later as the lower bearing had a spacer or washer which were not concentric with one another if this is relevant.

Hi - I dropped the rudder on my Antares7 because the steering on mine was stupidly stiff and tight. My set up was exactly as Plum describes with the plastic ring. The bottom rudder seal bearing housing on my Antares was an inverted top hat arrangement that was screwed into the hull by 2 short but wide self tapping screws. The reason my steering was tight was because the garter spring of one of the top lip seals has become displaced and had become lodged between the rudder shaft and the plastic ring. I replaced all 4 of my lip seals with Viton stainless steel garter spring items, mine were also 40 x 52 x 7mm.
I also obtained some stainless steel circlips - cannot recall the size, sorry.
It sounds as if you have your rudder dropped - I could not release the screws on my Vetus 40 Tiller arm so had to break it off and buy a new one which was replaced with copious amounts of grease etc.

 

[spray]

Oh yes, then if out of the water remove the lower bearing. As you have probably seen, part way along the metal skeg is a half-lap join held together with 2 screws so should be an easy job to remove that aft section. Your description of the non concentric spacer is worrying.....

Hi - I dropped the rudder on my Antares7 because the steering on mine was stupidly stiff and tight. My set up was exactly as Plum describes with the plastic ring. The bottom rudder seal bearing housing on my Antares was an inverted top hat arrangement that was screwed into the hull by 2 short but wide self tapping screws. The reason my steering was tight was because the garter spring of one of the top lip seals has become displaced and had become lodged between the rudder shaft and the plastic ring. I replaced all 4 of my lip seals with Viton stainless steel garter spring items, mine were also 40 x 52 x 7mm.
I also obtained some stainless steel circlips - cannot recall the size, sorry.
It sounds as if you have your rudder dropped - I could not release the screws on my Vetus 40 Tiller arm so had to break it off and buy a new one which was replaced with copious amounts of grease etc.

Thank you both for the information. I dropped the skeg, easy as you said Plum. The top hat nylon bearing has worn giving the non-concentric appearance, these are not available from Beneteau, you have to buy a whole skeg Beneteau told me, around £500. I'll will have one made. The rudder is still just as stiff so it's obviously the top bearings. I have just been quoted for these 3 parts which include two top hats and a tubular spacer totalling around £350, Outrageous! Changing these does not look an easy job owing to the restricted space available, is it difficult? Paul1962, your rectification is interesting, could you please tell me what a garter spring is?
On a different subject, why do Beneteau have backing felt on their rudder and skeg anodes, is it necessary? I would rather buy cheaper anodes that pay through the roof for Ben parts
Thanks again for all your help.

 

[Plum]

On a different subject, why do Beneteau have backing felt on their rudder and skeg anodes, is it necessary? I would rather buy cheaper anodes that pay through the roof for Ben parts
Thanks again for all your help.

The foam anode backing pads are not specific to Beneteau. You can buy them from any chandlery. In most, but not all cases, the nuts/bolt(s) clamp the zink or aluminium of the anode to a surface. If the zink/aluminium wastes on the back face the nuts/bolts will be loose. The backing pad stops the wasting from the back so the anode does not come loose.

 

[spray]

The foam anode backing pads are not specific to Beneteau. You can buy them from any chandlery. In most, but not all cases, the nuts/bolt(s) clamp the zink or aluminium of the anode to a surface. If the zink/aluminium wastes on the back face the nuts/bolts will be loose. The backing pad stops the wasting from the back so the anode does not come loose.

Thank you Plum

 

[Plum]

Thank you both for the information. I dropped the skeg, easy as you said Plum. The top hat nylon bearing has worn giving the non-concentric appearance, these are not available from Beneteau, you have to buy a whole skeg Beneteau told me, around £500. I'll will have one made. The rudder is still just as stiff so it's obviously the top bearings. I have just been quoted for these 3 parts which include two top hats and a tubular spacer totalling around £350, Outrageous! Changing these does not look an easy job owing to the restricted space available, is it difficult? Paul1962, your rectification is interesting, could you please tell me what a garter spring is?
On a different subject, why do Beneteau have backing felt on their rudder and skeg anodes, is it necessary? I would rather buy cheaper anodes that pay through the roof for Ben parts
Thanks again for all your help.

If you get someone to make you a new bearing, make sure they do not use nylon which absorbes water and expands making the rudder stiff !! Materials such as Delrin or Vesconite are good.

If the top bearing just has a displaced seal, as Paul suggests, you may be able to reuse the bearing.

 

[spray]

If you get someone to make you a new bearing, make sure they do not use nylon which absorbes water and expands making the rudder stiff !! Materials such as Delrin or Vesconite are good.

If the top bearing just has a displaced seal, as Paul suggests, you may be able to reuse the bearing.

Good tip, thank you. The only options for replacing the lower bearing are buying a new skeg or having a bearing made, both expensive. I thought of boring out the skeg bearing slightly to fit an off the shelf bronze bush, it will need a retaining plate on the base of the skeg to stop it working it’s way loose. Any comments or suggestions please?

 

[Paul1962]

Thank you both for the information. I dropped the skeg, easy as you said Plum. The top hat nylon bearing has worn giving the non-concentric appearance, these are not available from Beneteau, you have to buy a whole skeg Beneteau told me, around £500. I'll will have one made. The rudder is still just as stiff so it's obviously the top bearings. I have just been quoted for these 3 parts which include two top hats and a tubular spacer totalling around £350, Outrageous! Changing these does not look an easy job owing to the restricted space available, is it difficult? Paul1962, your rectification is interesting, could you please tell me what a garter spring is?
On a different subject, why do Beneteau have backing felt on their rudder and skeg anodes, is it necessary? I would rather buy cheaper anodes that pay through the roof for Ben parts
Thanks again for all your help.

Hi a Garter spring is the endless spring inside a lip seal that keeps the lips in contact with the shaft it is sealing.

 

[spray]

Hi a Garter spring is the endless spring inside a lip seal that keeps the lips in contact with the shaft it is sealing.

Hi, thanks for explaining, I did end up googling it as in my 78 years I have never heard the name

 

[spray]

I have reached this far and I’m now stuck.
Do I now hammer the shaft out or do I need to do something else. I did give it a couple of taps and it didn’t budge.
Help please.

 

[Plum]

View attachment 179072
I have reached this far and I’m now stuck.
Do I now hammer the shaft out or do I need to do something else. I did give it a couple of taps and it didn’t budge.
Help please.

If you have now removed the end of the skeg together with the lower bearing then that rudder stock should slide downwards but only of you have the boat high enough so the rudder does not hit the ground. Otherwise, can you prize the white plastic bush in your photo gently upwards?

 

[spray]

If you have now removed the end of the skeg together with the lower bearing then that rudder stock should slide downwards but only of you have the boat high enough so the rudder does not hit the ground. Otherwise, can you prize the white plastic bush in your photo gently upwards?

Thank you for your helpful advice. I cannot prize the top bearing and I have tried tapping the rudder but it won’t budge. I saw on Youtube tonight about clamping a plank on the rudder giving great leverage and getting someone to waggle the rudder while it is tapped from above. Up to now I have been single handed but if I can get someone to help, I will try this tomorrow if you think it’s a good idea. Do I need to remove the lower tophat on the hull? (Not the sleg, that is removed) I welcome your feedback.