Bayesian.

[Pye_End]

For sailing.

 

[14K478]

Why does it have keel.

For the same reason as a sailing dinghy does. To provide lateral resistance.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Why does it have keel.

Google it.

 

[Seastoke]

For the same reason as a sailing dinghy does. To provide lateral resistance.

Well it would of had lateral force would you not think, I know nothing about sailing , but I do about counterbalance. So if the yacht was designed to have a shallow keel when there is a force against the yacht above the water, it would have a heavier keel.

 

[finestgreen]

It's a criminal investigation in Italy, I seriously doubt they will grant foreign bodies -as official as they can be- any quick and automatic access to underwater images or material, reports from rescue people, statements from crew etc. let alone grant anyone an autonomous access to the underwater ship. They might do it voluntarily, but if the MAIB need to follow some local legal procedure good luck to them. I may be wrong of course.

Marine Accident Investigation Branch: current investigations

It's listed under current investigations, not "Investigations into accidents involving UK registered vessels and/or UK citizens that, by agreement, are being led by other administrations."

 

[Seastoke]

As far as I understand it, from the various discussions post incident, YouTube et cetera, the boat is stable motoring about with its keel up, so countering the mast weight was in place.

Are you not contradicting what you say in post,30

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Are you not contradicting what you say in post,30

No I am not. You just need to do some simple research on lifting keels. It is not a new concept, well established design on sailing vessels with large heavy masts.

 

[Seastoke]

No I am not. You just need to do some simple research on lifting keels. It is not a new concept, well established design on sailing vessels with large heavy masts.

No you say the boat is stable whilst motoring ,but it was at anchor.

 

[B27]

I have not seen either BBC or ITV films on this, but I did see one very interesting piece online that said that the down flooding angle of the boat was very considerably less that the angles of vanishing stability, either keel up or keel down.

Down flooding angle may mean 'angle at which it fills with water and sinks in seconds' like an open boat, or 'angle at which a few small vents let in water' or anything between.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

No you say the boat is stable whilst motoring ,but it was at anchor.

I can’t help you if you are unable to differentiate between keel up at anchor and keel up when motoring about.

You need to swat up on the basics of stability if interested.

 

[Seastoke]

I am no portioning blame at anyone, when we have been at anchor , and found ourselves in a beam sea that is causing us concern. We would up anchor and either motor to a different location or steer into the heavy sea.

 

[Seastoke]

I can’t help you if you are unable to differentiate between keel up at anchor and keel up when motoring about.

You need to swat up on the basics of stability if interested.

I am asking on here to understand why they did not have the keel down if this is so. On a motor boat size would have giros .

 

[14K478]

I am asking on here to understand why they did not have the keel down if this is so. On a motor boat size would have giros .

I don’t know, but if I were the skipper of that boat, anchored where she was, I would have been concerned about the wind coming onshore and the risk of starting to drag before we could get under way, so I would have had the board up.

 

[ridgy]

I posted this afew weeks ago but it got pulled immediately. Offers confirmation and denial of certain things.

Former Bayesian captain offers insight

 

[Chris_Robb]

The ITV documentary programme dealt with facts available to date and did not apportion blame.
Similar to any MCA investigation it merely went through the events which lead up to the sinking and the rescue attempts afterwards.

It was a rubbish documentary. No mention of down flood angle 45 degrees of stability. This us all in the public domain.

It was a ridiculous design with 2 sunken cockpits in the deck, 8 inches from the side which led straight into the saloon, with the only thing to stop water being the heavy and self opening patio doors.

 

[lustyd]

It was a ridiculous design with 2 sunken cockpits in the deck

Do you have any idea of the purpose of the boat? It was an appropriate design for expected conditions that unfortunately met unexpected and unpredicted extreme conditions.

 

[vyv_cox]

Do you have any idea of the purpose of the boat? It was an appropriate design for expected conditions that unfortunately met unexpected and unpredicted extreme conditions.

Ridiculous argument. There is no such thing as unexpected and unpredicted conditions at sea, especially nowadays in increasingly unstable weather. Two weeks ago we were anchored in zero wind. Within a few minutes we were seeing 50 knot gusts.

 

[dunedin]

I posted this afew weeks ago but it got pulled immediately. Offers confirmation and denial of certain things.

Former Bayesian captain offers insight

Thanks for posting. That statement by the Bayesian’s previous captain is extremely informative.

Certainly answers a few questions on here - which if I have understood correctly include
- the majority of ballast in the main keel, lowered keel mainly to prevent leeway (though still c.60 tons of the ballast)
- under operating procedures the keel only needs to be lowered under sail or 60 miles offshore
- only hull door the one on the side for garage - interestingly the boat floats 10cm lower than others in the series but the builder didn’t raise the height of the door, so very close to water level. Under operating practice never left open.
- downflooding angle just 45 degrees, much less than AVS even with keel up

 

[Pye_End]

I am asking on here to understand why they did not have the keel down if this is so. On a motor boat size would have giros .

If you wade through some of the Sailing Anarchy thread I linked to before you will find some in depth comment and debate over this issue.

It appears to me, from that thread, that the swing keel did improve angle of vanishing stability, but not by that much. I suspect that they did not expect to be laid down by the weather (why would they on a boat that size?) - and it may well be that it would not have made any difference to the outcome. By the time they realised there was a stability issue, most of them were in the water.

The swing keel had some weight, but most of the ballast was elsewhere.

 

[lustyd]

Ridiculous argument. There is no such thing as unexpected and unpredicted conditions at sea, especially nowadays in increasingly unstable weather. Two weeks ago we were anchored in zero wind. Within a few minutes we were seeing 50 knot gusts.

The downburst has literally been described by weather experts as unpredictable. The boat was designed for reasonable conditions and to be tucked up somewhere safe otherwise. Not everything needs to be a frigate.
50 knot gusts is different than 200kt downburst with significant rainfall