Bavaria visit

[ThomasHome]

Seems to me that most people pick on Bavarias because of some mastic and silicon here and there, if thats the main quibble then thay've not done too bad. The wood work is not a good as some, but in our 32 we have two good double cabins and plenty of space in the saloon (although I hate the way they have done the knobs on all the lockers), we looked at loads of other boats of a similar size, none had the space and comfort of the Bav inside which keeps the Mrs happy, and that has to be fairly high on the list when buying a boat. Yes they are light but with the deep keel they cope pretty well in rougher conditions.

The amount of boats that Opal have commisioned over the winter must mean that the people who love to hate them are in a minority. I'm not sure why we're not all driving around in old solid rovers thay will last forever, although there are none in the Marina carpark - its full of mass produced cars.



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[Mr Cassandra]

May I sugest that you look at www.yachtfractions.co.uk a interesting as new Bavaria is on offer there at a £20,000 saving

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[ThomasHome]

I guess it goes to show what good value these boats are, that a lot of boat and goodies for a little over 100k, bit out of my price range though, pity.

I managed 25% off the price of a new car a while back, once I started the engine it had lost 30% I guess its similar with boats.

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[JerryS]

Because there are many who like to look down their noses at others, if you turned up at a snooty golf club in an tatty car, you'd get a similar welcome. I get fed up with people who think they are better that everone else cos they've got money, doesn't matter if you sail a Bavaria, Cat or a Swan, we're all out to have an enjoyable time on the water

Bollocks to all of 'em

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[rhinorhino]

HRs go up in value, Bavs don't.
I argee that Bavs are cheap, not that they are good value.
I like sailing in reasonable winds, we did a YM exam in a force 10, try that on a Bav.

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[30boat]

Re:each to his own

The oldest Fulmar is only 23 years old and looks almost as good as new .I now, I own her.

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[oldsalt]

I've now sailed a Bav 32 three times for long distances (including 2 overnights) in F7/F8, and they do not like it at all. Broach downwind and leeway upwind. SOme of the poor pointing upwind may be due to the poor quality sails supplied, but the hull form must be the main reason. I agree that they may be what many people want, but that does not necessarily make them a good heavy weather boat. And once again I suspect that they will depreciate in value.

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[oldsalt]

Thanks for the link to Yacht Fractions, a 20k loss is a lot of cash. The text explaining the sale was most interesting regarding groans during sailing-

REASON FOR SALE

Nehallenia was delivered new in early August 2002, she was commissioned in the UK and handed over to her owner. Following a short shakedown cruise she was sailed direct to Lanzarote. The intention to sail 2 days ahead of the ARC to the Caribbean.

The owners contacted us and complained that the boat made severe creaking and groaning noises when at sea and that they were very nervous about her structural safety.

Such noises are not at all uncommon on new Bavarias and indeed most modern production built boats. They are not structural and can be eliminated. They arise due the the flexible design of the boat and the installation of the internal furniture. We appointed a local qualified surveyor to inspect the boat, he undertook this and had conversations with the technical director at Bavaria in Germany. The conclusion was that in the opinion of the surveyor, Bavaria and IMCI (International Marine Certification Instutute) there is nothing structurally wrong with this boat. The surveyor informed us that he would be happy to sail the boat anywhere.

We offered to fly a techician to Lanzarote to attend to the noises. This was stopped by the owner who insisted that this person came from Bavaria.

Following a deterioration in relationship between ourselves and the owner and not wishing to have the responsibiltiy of a new boat under warranty at the distance of the Caribbean with this particular owner it was decided to buy the boat back and to end the relationship.

For further details please contact





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[Heckler]

Re: Norton v Honda all over again

monkey muck they called it, what they cast the engines out of, tossers the lot of them taking the piss out of jap crap as they called them. triumphs , bsa , norton all fell by the wayside, couldnt compete with them, all those old farts, toothsuckers with their oil stained fingers and tools in their belstaffs while all the smart bs with their oil tight hondas and clean fingers and clothes pulled all the birds,
huh remember it well, was one myself !
this time round i bought a beneteau !!
no droops in my boat, no smell of sea water and diesel, just nice clean fglass and spin on a sixpence, read the report on the 351 in pbo, lot of toothsucking going on there, too wide, unwise to treat as an ocean racer, not like the good old days is it boys, is that why there is only one major british boat builder left?
hohum
s

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[Heckler]

funny that

the mag pix showed workers laying up the hulls in the factory, ym wouldnt tell porkies by omission would they?
s

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[ThomasHome]

3 or 4 times a year we drive to Nice, takes about 12 hours, I have a Saab that is great on long journeys, I would not do the trip in a fiesta type car with a small engine, although it would get there I doubt it would be all that comfortable, yet the Fiesta is one of the best selling cars of all time as its great for everyday use. There is not much point buying a Range Rover when you never go outside the M25 but people do. How many expencive boats venture out of the Solent regularly?

I expect people buy the best boat for the type of sailing they do and the money they've got, it our case it was a Bav 32 and we are still happy with it despite all the negitive reaction on this forum, as are many other owners.

This post is starting to sound like a school playground where some poor kid has spent all his pocket money on a toy and all the other kids are telling him how shyte it is.



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[tcm]

Re: Bavaria/Saab/Fiesta

Umm. Yes i suppose it does start sounding v negative. It isn't that the bav (or fiesta) won't work, but that others might do better. We had a bav over the weekend and with not too much wind it started skittering about. But it was okay, not all dangerous and so on. Likewise I suppose there are better cars to do the trip to Nice than a Fiesta. Mind you, you are independent-minded indeed to admit to a Saab and a Bavaria in the same post

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[Twister_Ken]

Psst - dirty pictures, meester?

Obviously the pictures were fakes, like the moon landing. And they airbrushed out the short and curlies as well.



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[ThomasHome]

Re: Bavaria/Saab/Fiesta

Should have bought a BMW I guess, it would hold its value and I'd be able to fit in with the crowd and not be a lesser mortal.
Next time I'll but a Sweedish boat and a German car, although I am fond of the new Ferrari - I'll have to sweet talk the Mrs on that one.

Lets not mention West Ham

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[warrior40]

Re:each to his own

You are of course correct, the first one being built in 1980. I have owned one too and I think they are great boats, ten times the yacht of many built today. They are very expensive though for what they are, and not all look as good as yours!!

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[Gunfleet]

<<I have a Saab that is great on long journeys>>
This is a mistake. I bought one ten years ago on the basis I was going to drive it until it fell apart. I can't make it fall apart. What do I have to do to justify another car?

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[Chris_Robb]

Re: Bavaria/Saab/Fiesta

Lets not mention West Ham - which is one stop short of Barking (mad)

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[Chris_Robb]

Price in 5 years

Bavaria, Jenneau,Benetaux etc produce some 20-30,000 boats per year between them all. There have been plenty of buyers - but like all markets, this one has been a new market and not a replacement market. The source of new buyers will slow, as will the availablility of places to keep them.

So what happens in 2 years time, - will the market become a replacement only basis??? do all the mass production companies go bust as they no longer can sell at such low prices on half the volume. This is nothing to do with recession - thios will happen and some point. So - where do old boats go to die? Answer - they don't - but wait for the current batch of AWB's.

So what happens when the current crop of charter boats comes up for sale???

Sorry I wouldn't like to own an AWB and be trying to sell it in a couple of years time!! that is even if they were well built and would last - which they are not.

I endorse your comments about Bavs and moving furniture - One boat I was on - 40 ft - the movement of the furniture against the hull was so bad that things would get nipped between the hull and furniture - keep fingers well clear!!! this was beating to windward in a 7. I seriously thought the boat was going to fall to bits - slammed on almost every wave.- I'll not go on one again if there is a chance of being caught out.

Keep to the old heavies - these will keep their value as no-one is building them any more.

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[zefender]

Re: \"Keep to the old heavies....

.....- these will keep their value as no-one is building them any more"

....er, might there be a reason for that?

1, I don't have fine carpentry in my home, why should I want it on my boat?

2, I like the idea of comfort and space and so does my family, nothing wrong with that

3, I like sailing at a reasonable speed

4, In common with most modern designs, the boats do slam but I've been out in gales and never felt like it was falling apart.

5, I could have 2-3 Bavarias for the cost of a HR - each in different colours. For my sailing (not just solent/coastal confined) I doubt the HR would add greatly to my sailing pleasure

6, If you don't like the fit out down below - change it. You'll still be left with thousands of pounds saving. Not disimilar to buying a hull from Colvic really!



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[Chris_Robb]

Re: "Keep to the old heavies....

No-one is building them anymore because they are just too expensive to build now. I defy you to go past us off the wind once it is over force 5! (to windward is a different matter - thats why Ive got 80 horses uner the deck!

You are by now well aware of my own personal preference for boats! so leaving that aside, the areas which are of concern are the huge supply into a market which must change soon from a new market to a replacement market. when that happens there will be a huge slowdown in sales as the market has now sold to all those willing and capable of buying. Another factor also comes into this - space to keep them all. The annual supply in Europe is huge, space is now becoming very limited - france (except North Brittany) has long waiting lists.

So what happens as people migrate hobbies and want to sell in an overcrowded market. The first casualties will be the heavily used boats (ex Charter). Whats the knock on - Reduced new boat building - so how can Bav or anyone keep their prices down with smaller volume, The whole economics of the charter fleets will have to be reassesed - greater depreciation - higher purchase price.

The great days when inflation made us think our boats did not depreciate are well and truly gone anyway - so a major change in the market place......... Not sure I would want shares in any boatbuilder at present.

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