Bakelite or the modern alternatives...which are?

[ean_p]

I'm looking for a reasonably priced 'mounting' surface that is both insulating and reasonably heat resistant. It was always 'Bakelite' or some such material that was cheap as chips, but it now seems to be very expensive and not so easy to find! What are the modern equivalents ? Looking for a few square feet and about 6mm thick, being easy to drill and work....oh and safe to use!

 

[Aja]

I'm looking for a reasonably priced 'mounting' surface that is both insulating and reasonably heat resistant. It was always 'Bakelite' or some such material that was cheap as chips, but it now seems to be very expensive and not so easy to find! What are the modern equivalents ? Looking for a few square feet and about 6mm thick, being easy to drill and work....oh and safe to use!

What is it insulating?

 

[jamie N]

Wood?
Tufnol?

 

[Aja]

Tufnol certainly wouldn't be cheap as chips, unfortunately. Also depends on the finish required.

HDPE springs to mind.

 

[Daydreamer]

I think Tufnol is the material
I seem to remember picking up a prop shaft bearing from a place in Birmingham which turned out to be the (remains of) the Bakelite factory

 

[Refueler]

I thought Bakelite was literally banned retail ? Due to the production process involved or if it caught fire ?? Long time since I read about something with it.

Silly me ... it was the use of PHENOL in its production ...

Example of the dangers of Phenol :

I used to sail on a Chemical Tanker that carried Phenol from Huelva in Spain to Rotterdam for BASF / Shell Chemie. While transiting English Channel - CG used to issue regular warnings to other vessels to be aware of our passage with such cargo. We carried it in liquid form and heated to prevent it crystalising .... it was not unusual for our deck pipelines to become solid with it - requiring steaming to open them back up. We were required to wear full Hazmat gear when working on deck and only one person in close proximity to lines etc - with second clear but close enough in case of ermergency ... personal saunas we called them !

Phenol was eventually restricted in Europe due to its toxicity ..... based on large tonnages being moved.

 

[Aja]

I think Tufnol is made with phenol. Wee while since I dealt with them.

 

[davidej]

Epoxy glass fibre sheet?

Look on flea bay.

 

[B27]

Tufnol or other forms of 'resin bonded paper or fabric is not cheap stuff.
https://tufnol.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/carp-brand-sheets.pdf
Epoxy/glass sheet used for circuit boards, not ever so cheap either

Various un-reinforced plastic sheets are available.

 

[Refueler]

I think Tufnol is made with phenol. Wee while since I dealt with them.

Phenol was a common used product and still used .... but as I understand it - restricted.

 

[billskip]

What are those white plastic looking chopping boards made of....?

 

[Aja]

What are those white plastic looking chopping boards made of....?

See post #4

 

[bedouin]

Are you talking about electrical insulation, heat insulation or sound insulation?

There are plenty of types of plastic panel available - e.g. solid acrylic or foamed PVC. Wood/MDF is also possible. "Marine Board" is HDPE (as already suggested)

 

[Aja]

Epoxy glass fibre sheet?

Look on flea bay.

We supplied G10 as insulating material to Aggreko. Not cheap and weighs a ton. Similar to Tufnol.

 

[ean_p]

Are you talking about electrical insulation, heat insulation or sound insulation?

There are plenty of types of plastic panel available - e.g. solid acrylic or foamed PVC. Wood/MDF is also possible. "Marine Board" is HDPE (as already suggested)

Sorry B but I thought that I'd already edited the post....it needs to be electrically insulating but also resistant to heat / burning in case of an issue with the 'electrical equipment mounted on it....the old Bakelite would fulfil all the requirements but I think Tufnol and most straightforward plastics would have issues with the heat / fire resistance...!

 

[ean_p]

I thought Bakelite was literally banned retail ? Due to the production process involved or if it caught fire ?? Long time since I read about something with it.

Silly me ... it was the use of PHENOL in its production ...

Example of the dangers of Phenol :

I used to sail on a Chemical Tanker that carried Phenol from Huelva in Spain to Rotterdam for BASF / Shell Chemie. While transiting English Channel - CG used to issue regular warnings to other vessels to be aware of our passage with such cargo. We carried it in liquid form and heated to prevent it crystalising .... it was not unusual for our deck pipelines to become solid with it - requiring steaming to open them back up. We were required to wear full Hazmat gear when working on deck and only one person in close proximity to lines etc - with second clear but close enough in case of ermergency ... personal saunas we called them !

Phenol was eventually restricted in Europe due to its toxicity ..... based on large tonnages being moved.

I was an apprentice on a major chemical plant that manufactured Phenol. Its danger is that it is absorbed through the skin and attacks the central nervous system. Indeed clothing moistened with phenol over the area equal to a dinner plate would be enough to eventually kill a man in a slow rather horrible way......such a thing happened on site to one of the guys working in the barrel park. he sat on a barrel to have a chin wag and thought he'd sat in some rain water......he was day a few days later! As a young apprentice tech who would be working on the production plant and equipment it was a tale that found its way very firmly home!
Incidently most people would have experienced Phenol through using 'Lifebuoy' soap, Phenol was the 'antiseptic' ingredient!

 

[onesea]

Silicone Sheet? Just an idea.

 

[bedouin]

Sorry B but I thought that I'd already edited the post....it needs to be electrically insulating but also resistant to heat / burning in case of an issue with the 'electrical equipment mounted on it....the old Bakelite would fulfil all the requirements but I think Tufnol and most straightforward plastics would have issues with the heat / fire resistance...!

You can still get paxolin panels that is very similar to "bakelite" that should meet your requirements - but not cheap. You can also get various treated fire proof materials including MDF and wood

 

[B27]

Sorry B but I thought that I'd already edited the post....it needs to be electrically insulating but also resistant to heat / burning in case of an issue with the 'electrical equipment mounted on it....the old Bakelite would fulfil all the requirements but I think Tufnol and most straightforward plastics would have issues with the heat / fire resistance...!

That's all quite vague.
Do you need to insulate thousands of volts? How much leakage can you tolerate?
How heat resistant? 100degC or 1000?

What mechanical properties are required?
Does it have to look pretty?

Glass, ceramics, fibre cement, plasterboard, mica,

 

[B27]

You can still get paxolin panels that is very similar to "bakelite" that should meet your requirements - but not cheap. You can also get various treated fire proof materials including MDF and wood

Paxolin is fairly cheap
It's phenolic resin bonded paper, good for 120degC or so,
1200mmx600mmx3mm Synthetic Resin Bonded Phenolic Paper