Are sailors addicted to TECH

[sfellows]

The first few times I skippered across the Channel (in an Elizabethan 30) it was an RDF, depth sounder and log with DR for navigation.

Then moved onto Decca

Then GPS,

I consider all these technologies additions to safety and less stress.

Today we have bigger boat with additionally a plotter, AIS, windspeed and direction, as well as autopilot and an NMEA 2000 Network. I also consider these to be vital additions to safety and less stress.

The only disadvantage to new technology is if it causes a "heads down" mentality by looking just at the devices. I consider my eyeballs looking out from the cockpit the main safety device.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

as well as autopilot

Sorry. That's not Tech. You can't count that.

It's a paid hand .

 

[Stemar]

I consider my eyeballs looking out from the cockpit the main safety device.

 

[Concerto]

I really like your set up. I can never see the logic of a chart plotter that is inside and not outside. You have everything where it should be. Perfect.

With that plotter you can mirror it to an iPad at the chart table (or dining table) when passage planning. And you can remote the buttons to your phone so you can control it from your steering position.

Looks lovely.

The set up is simple, but not quite perfect as the chart plotter can be just a bit to far away from the tiller to adjust the zoom manually. Generally the most critical part of any journey is the first 100m and the last 100m, the rest of the time you do not need to be that accurate as an error is not critical.

I love keeping things simple, that is why I have not connected the chart plotter to the autopilot even though I just need a 2m cable. Having everything interconnected seems brilliant until something goes wrong. There will probably be some conflict between systems and may stop them all working, hence in my system you would only loose one instrument and the rest will still work. I can sail without a log or wind instrument. Most of the time the autopilot is not used except on long passages, but I have used a temporary set up once when my old autopilot failed in rough weather. The chart plotter is useful but not essential as I have backup by Mark 1 eyeball and mobile phone, plus charts. The instrument I would hate to loose most is the echo sounder, but have experienced that once whilst racing on the Crouch.

Next year I had planned to fit AIS as I am sailing round the UK via Shetland, but have decided not to bother as most of the information is available on my mobile - provided I have a signal. The only upgrade I am making is to add a remote control to my autopilot.

Generally when sailing I only put a few waypoints in the chart plotter as they are critical points. A few years ago I sailed from the Medway to the Isles of Scilly and back singlehanded, but only used 4 waypoints. So there is no need to link an i-pad (which I do not have) to the chart plotter for sitting below to plot waypoints. It is just as easy to zoom the screen to where a waypoint in needed and move the cursor to an exact position and click for a new waypoint.

So for me the KISS principle is best.

 

[Elessar]

The set up is simple, but not quite perfect as the chart plotter can be just a bit to far away from the tiller to adjust the zoom manually. Generally the most critical part of any journey is the first 100m and the last 100m, the rest of the time you do not need to be that accurate as an error is not critical.

I love keeping things simple, that is why I have not connected the chart plotter to the autopilot even though I just need a 2m cable. Having everything interconnected seems brilliant until something goes wrong. There will probably be some conflict between systems and may stop them all working, hence in my system you would only loose one instrument and the rest will still work. I can sail without a log or wind instrument. Most of the time the autopilot is not used except on long passages, but I have used a temporary set up once when my old autopilot failed in rough weather. The chart plotter is useful but not essential as I have backup by Mark 1 eyeball and mobile phone, plus charts. The instrument I would hate to loose most is the echo sounder, but have experienced that once whilst racing on the Crouch.

Next year I had planned to fit AIS as I am sailing round the UK via Shetland, but have decided not to bother as most of the information is available on my mobile - provided I have a signal. The only upgrade I am making is to add a remote control to my autopilot.

Generally when sailing I only put a few waypoints in the chart plotter as they are critical points. A few years ago I sailed from the Medway to the Isles of Scilly and back singlehanded, but only used 4 waypoints. So there is no need to link an i-pad (which I do not have) to the chart plotter for sitting below to plot waypoints. It is just as easy to zoom the screen to where a waypoint in needed and move the cursor to an exact position and click for a new waypoint.

So for me the KISS principle is best.

install RayRemote on your phone and you can use it as a remote control including for zooming.

 

[scottie]

The first few times I skippered across the Channel (in an Elizabethan 30) it was an RDF, depth sounder and log with DR for navigation.

Then moved onto Decca

Then GPS,

I consider all these technologies additions to safety and less stress.

Today we have bigger boat with additionally a plotter, AIS, windspeed and direction, as well as autopilot and an NMEA 2000 Network. I also consider these to be vital additions to safety and less stress.

The only disadvantage to new technology is if it causes a "heads down" mentality by looking just at the devices. I consider my eyeballs looking out from the cockpit the main safety device.

With regards to eyeballs looking out
I had the experience of nearly coming to blows over the helmsman using the helm mounted plotter zoomed right in with the boat heading for the rocks rather than rounding the arm of the bay we were supposed to be transversing even though it was right in front of him if he had looked up
often I found myself switching the plotter off when giving beginners basic sailing lessons

 

[dunedin]

install RayRemote on your phone and you can use it as a remote control including for zooming.

I use to use the Raymarine apps on my phone, but they dont seem to have been updated for 4 years or so, and seem to be incompatible with Android 10 or above (which is now many years old) - hence sadly completely useless.

 

[Concerto]

install RayRemote on your phone and you can use it as a remote control including for zooming.

Not heard of RayRemote, but just downloaded it and the next time I go to Concerto I shall give it a try.

 

[johnalison]

With regards to eyeballs looking out
I had the experience of nearly coming to blows over the helmsman using the helm mounted plotter zoomed right in with the boat heading for the rocks rather than rounding the arm of the bay we were supposed to be transversing even though it was right in front of him if he had looked up
often I found myself switching the plotter off when giving beginners basic sailing lessons

There is not a lot of call for rock-hopping in Essex, but the only time I have used the plotter for this purpose was when leaving Treguier, mainly to check the transits. It wasn’t entirely successful since I was using the iPad as a repeater for the inside plotter and it decided that it was too hot in the sun and shut itself down. In the Swedish west coast archipelago I found it much easier to use their excellent folio-sized charts in a plastic cover in the cockpit, which I could just about read without glasses.

 

[Elessar]

There is not a lot of call for rock-hopping in Essex, but the only time I have used the plotter for this purpose was when leaving Treguier, mainly to check the transits. It wasn’t entirely successful since I was using the iPad as a repeater for the inside plotter and it decided that it was too hot in the sun and shut itself down. In the Swedish west coast archipelago I found it much easier to use their excellent folio-sized charts in a plastic cover in the cockpit, which I could just about read without glasses.

iPad screen no good in bright sun either even when it doesn’t overheat.
I can see no logic whatsoever to putting the plotter inside where it can’t be seen by the helm. A second one there if you’re flush and like gadgets, but putting the only one I simply don’t understand.

 

[Elessar]

Not heard of RayRemote, but just downloaded it and the next time I go to Concerto I shall give it a try.

You have to connect the phone to the plotter by wifi. You set the wifi password up in the settings on the plotter. Once connected just start RayRemote. It will show you a mirror of the plotter with a little keyboard on it. Press that and hey presto it becomes the buttons on the plotter.

 

[Elessar]

I use to use the Raymarine apps on my phone, but they dont seem to have been updated for 4 years or so, and seem to be incompatible with Android 10 or above (which is now many years old) - hence sadly completely useless.

You’re right they don’t seem to have been updated for ages but it still works for me. Let’s see how concerto gets on.
Mine still work. They have a new one called Rayconnect maybe that’s the answer. That the trouble with tech - why can’t developers understand “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”

 

[LONG_KEELER]

.

 

[Concerto]

Mine still work. They have a new one called Rayconnect maybe that’s the answer. That the trouble with tech - why can’t developers understand “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”

It looks like RayConnect is more to buy Lighthouse charts than anything else. Very little information in the Apple App store, so doubt it will work like RayRemote.

 

[Stemar]

Generally the most critical part of any journey is the first 100m and the last 100m,

Yes, but if I'm reliant on a plotter for those bits, I reckon something's gone horribly wrong.

The one exception to that was navigating by radar down Emsworth channel through all the moorings on a particularly black night. It worked, but I'd have preferred headlights!

 

[johnalison]

iPad screen no good in bright sun either even when it doesn’t overheat.
I can see no logic whatsoever to putting the plotter inside where it can’t be seen by the helm. A second one there if you’re flush and like gadgets, but putting the only one I simply don’t understand.

I see no logic in your lack of flexibility. Different boats and different users have differing modus operandi and it is inappropriate to suggest that one or other system is wrong. In my case there are several reasons for having a plotter inside. One is that with a tiller I would in any case be unable to see the screen well, let alone operate it. The principal reason is that when I first fitted one in 2000 the available system was not fully waterproof when free-standing and the area under my windshield is not guaranteed to be dry. I also value being able to sit at the screen in the shelter of the saloon. Having the information read out in larger figures above the companionway tells me all I need to know on passage, and an iPad will display more if I wish. If I wished to spend a lot more money, I would now fit a second set on the coachroof, since they are now waterproof, but this would only add a little to functionality. I may add that moving to and from the cockpit to the saloon is especially easy compared to many boats with a staircase to negotiate.

 

[Elessar]

I see no logic in your lack of flexibility. Different boats and different users have differing modus operandi and it is inappropriate to suggest that one or other system is wrong. In my case there are several reasons for having a plotter inside. One is that with a tiller I would in any case be unable to see the screen well, let alone operate it. The principal reason is that when I first fitted one in 2000 the available system was not fully waterproof when free-standing and the area under my windshield is not guaranteed to be dry. I also value being able to sit at the screen in the shelter of the saloon. Having the information read out in larger figures above the companionway tells me all I need to know on passage, and an iPad will display more if I wish. If I wished to spend a lot more money, I would now fit a second set on the coachroof, since they are now waterproof, but this would only add a little to functionality. I may add that moving to and from the cockpit to the saloon is especially easy compared to many boats with a staircase to negotiate.

Noted re a non waterproof one. I was referring to a proper modern purpose built plotter.
With that, if you only have one, outside is where it should be.
A good skipper takes all the information available to him/her. That doesn’t mean relying on it, but it gives loads of useful info.
Particularly for pilotage. Where it needs to be seen by the helm to be of use. Your remote display is only really useful for navigation.
The risk of it being at the helm is a bad navigator relying on it and the “head down” approach described by others.
But that wouldn’t apply to you obviously because you know how to navigate properly and obviously there is nothing wrong with your set up because it’s non waterproof.
I prefer concertos set up though and I’d be splashing out if it was my boat. Each to their own.

 

[Concerto]

I prefer concertos set up though and I’d be splashing out if it was my boat. Each to their own.

Thank you, but you cannot splash out and buy Concerto as she is not for sale. However this short video of her in September at the Southampton Boat Show at the age of 41 years might tempt you away from those big diesels.

 

[Elessar]

Thank you, but you cannot splash out and buy Concerto as she is not for sale. However this short video of her in September at the Southampton Boat Show at the age of 41 years might tempt you away from those big diesels.

Really lovely. Good vid too.
The only thing I’d change is the lavac. Work of the devil. Give me a Tecma any time. (ok ok tongue in cheek. That could turn into a thread of anchor proportions ?)
I’ll go back to sails when I retire. My boat suits me just fine for now.

 

[johnalison]

Noted re a non waterproof one. I was referring to a proper modern purpose built plotter.
With that, if you only have one, outside is where it should be.
A good skipper takes all the information available to him/her. That doesn’t mean relying on it, but it gives loads of useful info.
Particularly for pilotage. Where it needs to be seen by the helm to be of use. Your remote display is only really useful for navigation.
The risk of it being at the helm is a bad navigator relying on it and the “head down” approach described by others.
But that wouldn’t apply to you obviously because you know how to navigate properly and obviously there is nothing wrong with your set up because it’s non waterproof.
I prefer concertos set up though and I’d be splashing out if it was my boat. Each to their own.

I would never sail in waters where adequate large-scale charts were not on board. A folio-sized chart or harbour plan to hand is much more useful to me than the screen of a plotter six or more feet away. This might even be the case if I had a binnacle. For most trips, I do not need to stare at a chart or even refer to it very often if I have worked out a route and can display the course and distance to the next waypoint. In fact, it is much safer for me to do this, having studied the route in the comfort of the saloon at my leisure rather than attempt to navigate on the hoof. It would be nice to be able to display radar in the cockpit, but here again the iPad can do this if I wish.

My newer plotter is waterproof but for my sailing the inside position is much better. I see no reason to assert that a plotter, or any other sailing tool, 'should' be used in a particular way.