Are modern boats up to it?

Once met a guy who had bought a big mobo with a knackered engine just to keep in the marina as a holiday cottage. Got to be chgeaper than buying a real cottage so why not?
 
Nostrodamus said:
Having lived aboard for a while in a Marina it is noticeable that only about 10% of the boats actually go out sailing. The rest get visitors at the weekends that immediately get the drinks out and just sit there before going home.
Modern boats are spacious, have two heads, the biggest owners cabin they can fit in and the interior looks good in brochure glossy pictures but have designers and builders of boats compromised themselves to sell more units.
At one time boats were built to the designer’s specification and then a price was decided upon. Now it seems that a price is decided upon and a boat is built to those specifications..... I would like to hear the views of others.
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I have long thought that a boat, maximised to put large accomodation alongside a given marina finger, is an intimidating thing, particularly for a novice two man team. They look small out of the water but take on a different aspect in a pokey berth when it blows 5 on the nose.
If sailing is the game then a smaller boat might suit better. I think it might work like cars and televisions, why get a modest one when, for the same money, you can get a big one?
 
Nostrodamus said:
Would you buy a new production boat or use the same money to buy an older boat?
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I raised a similar question in an earlier thread IIRC "are modern boats too cheap".

This was after noticing many adverts/posts extolling the age of say a Bavaria as an advantage hinting at more robust /quality build.

Certainly I would not replace our 2005 Jeanneau 43DS with the new 439 as the construction has changed to inner hull bonded to outer and the internal woodwork now resembles MFI flat pack with often sharp corners. Prior to this for various reasons I bought a new boat every 3 yrs. Currently I cannot identify a suitable replacement as the production boats appear to me to be too cheap and the quality boats too dear (Southerly, HR, Malo etc). The only boats I can identify as slightly upmarket are the Arcona and X boats.

I think other factors exposed in this thread are the perennial prejudice between modern AWBs and older MAB often long keelers.

The point that many have missed is that prices of modern boats and relative wealth have enabled many to now own a boat as a nice to have and these people do not live and die just to sail. The odd weekend and 2 weeks holiday sailing is great and other times it camr be a restful home from home for the weekend without going anywhere.

Providing they are enjoying it that fine except the popularity is pushing up Marina prices on the S coast - that I could do without.
 
doug748 said:
I think it might work like cars and televisions, why get a modest one when, for the same money, you can get a big one?
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Because, as others have said, SWMBO wouldn't get on a Mystery 30 for a week,might get on a Mystery 35 (but only 2 up), but would get on a (for example) Benny 323 with a couple of friends.

Sailing may be the game, but SWMBO usually holds the veto.

"You expect me to sleep on THAT piece of ****???"

Jamie
 
Seajet said:
There is a syndrome I call 'The Boat Show Boat'; about 3 double aft cabins ( but no cockpit lockers ) on a 25 footer judging by modern trends, a fantastic galley, all to encourage SWMBO into agreeing the purchase, but actually sails like a Tupperware lunchbox; the actual construction will probably be fine for limited offshore use, but the shape & design may not be.

As commented earlier, if that's what people want, let them enjoy it, whether they poke their noses out of the marina or not.

It could be said that 'real sailors' will go for designs which would be laughed out of a boat show on account of their 'poor' interiors, giving a poor account of themselves while berthed on an indoors carpet.

New, nowadays, these boats are / would be tremendously expensive, if looking at interiors as a guide.

Such boats would include the Contessa 32 and She 36; now where did I put my books on the 1979 Fastnet ? 'Heavy Weather Sailing' was one...
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What kind of boat do you sail sir?
Stu
 
Sailfree said:
I raised a similar question in an earlier thread IIRC "are modern boats too cheap".

This was after noticing many adverts/posts extolling the age of say a Bavaria as an advantage hinting at more robust /quality build.

Certainly I would not replace our 2005 Jeanneau 43DS with the new 439 as the construction has changed to inner hull bonded to outer and the internal woodwork now resembles MFI flat pack with often sharp corners. Prior to this for various reasons I bought a new boat every 3 yrs. Currently I cannot identify a suitable replacement as the production boats appear to me to be too cheap and the quality boats too dear (Southerly, HR, Malo etc). The only boats I can identify as slightly upmarket are the Arcona and X boats.

I think other factors exposed in this thread are the perennial prejudice between modern AWBs and older MAB often long keelers.

The point that many have missed is that prices of modern boats and relative wealth have enabled many to now own a boat as a nice to have and these people do not live and die just to sail. The odd weekend and 2 weeks holiday sailing is great and other times it camr be a restful home from home for the weekend without going anywhere.

Providing they are enjoying it that fine except the popularity is pushing up Marina prices on the S coast - that I could do without.
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+1
I enjoy my Bene 381, roomy, comfortable, sails well, cheap to buy. I get just as many kicks out of fixing things on her as I do sailing her. SWMBO is happy to just have the kids on board and pander to them comfortably as sail her in 30 plus knots. She takes all we have thrown at her and SWMBO loves to show the cherry interior and fitted carpets off to her mates!
All the MAB supporters are masochists in my mind!
Stu
 
jordanbasset said:
Since we left Plymouth to sail down to the med we have met some lovely people on all types of boats doing the same journey, including Nicholsons, Swans, Moody's, Ben, Jen, Bav's, and all types of catamarans, even some on mobos.

We have sailed the same waters at around the same time and most of us have got to where we want to be. Yes occasionally we have had bad weather big swell etc but we never felt in danger.In reality checking my logs this morning we have sailed/motored about 90 hours a month averaged out over the year.(did not sail in the winter but did live aboard) Of those 90 hours on average about 5 hours were in very strong winds. So over a year we had about 60 hours of sailing in very strong winds. So for the other 8580 hours of the year we were either sailing in light/moderate wind, no wind or at anchor or in the marina. Our boat served us very well for the trip and even in the very strong winds we never felt in danger but I would admit it would have been more comfortable in a long keeler for those 70 hours.

All things considered I prefer the added comfort our boat gives for over 99% of the time than live in cramped conditions of the older style long keelers. I am prepared that for that this decision means for under 1% of the time we will feel less comfortable. I do stress this is not about danger but comfort.

Finally I have found the people we have met in all these different types of boats (including mobos) do not seemed concerned with ranking boats and people and the vast majority were very happy with the boat they had. Life is full of choices and it is a question of deciding what is important for you
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+1
 
Good and bad in all ages

Last weekend we sailed the Bear, our 12 month old Jeanneau SO42DS back from Plymouth to the Hamble. Crew were my old mate Simon and his other half. He owns a Nich 35 and is a Yachtmaster Instructor (always handy to keep one on board, I find) and former Ocean Youth Trust skipper.

First two days were a bit flat and rainy but on Sunday we left Weymouth early in a F4/5 and blasted east at 9 to 10 kts under full sail. Simon felt the Jen was a bit "slammy" into waves compared to his Nich 35, which I fully accept, but as the boatspeed stayed around the 9 kts mark and she only tried to round up once, his smile just got broader, as did mine. Once round Anvil Point and on more of a reach she hurtled along quite nicely and as the sun came out we were passing Hurst at 12 kts SOG. Simon was positively cooing by now. Trips to France are being mooted!

Left Weymouth at 6.40am, tied up in the Hamble at 1.15 pm. A great sail in a modern boat which I consider to be "up to it." OK I don't consider her any better than Simon's Nich 35, which I have sailed in several times, but she is quicker and more spacious although less comfortable when it gets bouncy. She also cost more, so maybe he's got the better boat?

The thing is that we all have different reasons for buying what we have and beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I certainly wouldn't criticise anyone else's choice of boat, even though I might find it not to my liking.

But then, I have to stay humble of course as she's only an AWB made of plastic.....but I love her to bits.

I think the OP's question should be are all skippers/crews up to it?
 
I am obviously not putting this question across is the right way and I apologise for that.
I am sure that most boats, new and old have their good points and bad. If a boat wasn’t to our liking we would not buy it. Of course when we have spent all that money on it we will defend it against detractors.
My point is that over the last 30 years boat shapes have changed to give them more space and the cost of some new boats are very low for their size.
Have the designers made something that they hope will appeal to a broader market and sell and if so have they compromised the sailing or safety aspects in favour of producing more boats.
 
It's a bit like saying: look at the wonderful houses they built in the 18th century. We say this because all the rubbish ones have fallen down or been demolished.

Similarly with the boats from 50 years ago. Maybe the Nicholsons and the Rivals have survived - the rest have decayed away.

Which boats from 2011 will be around in 2061 is an interesting question, but possibly the subject of a different thread.
 
Joker said:
It's a bit like saying: look at the wonderful houses they built in the 18th century. We say this because all the rubbish ones have fallen down or been demolished.

Similarly with the boats from 50 years ago. Maybe the Nicholsons and the Rivals have survived - the rest have decayed away.

Which boats from 2011 will be around in 2061 is an interesting question, but possibly the subject of a different thread.
Click to expand...

I do like your thinking on this Joker. It would be an intresting thread.
 
I perhaps have an interesting angle on this discussion being in the process of moving from a 40' AWB to a 45' long keeled MAB... Let me be clear from the start.. It's NOTHING to do with safety at sea... We've been out in rough enough weather on the AWB to be certain that she can handle it... It's more to do with comfort for extended periods in foul weather offshore.. But... We are having to make compromises on living space... I have no time for the argument that an AWB is unsafe in heavy weather.. It's just plainly not true... It's just less comfortable, and for us, planning blue water cruising that was an important factor... But we'll miss the huge cabins and cockpit when in harbour or at anchor I'm sure.
 
A wise man once said that you can have any two of the following.

Good performance
Comfortable interior
Low cost

Every single aspect of every boat is a compromise.

Where you draw the line between speed and comfort, windward performance and ditch crawling, interior space and cockpit working space, price and standard of fit etc is very much a personal choice.

Telling someone their choice is wrong, is a bit like telling a bloke his wife is ugly. You may think so, but it's neither your place to say so - or of any relevance.
 
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