Are lifebuoys useful?

[mbroom]

I am currently refitting my boat for a trip to the Azores from the Clyde. My horseshoe lifebuoy has seen better days, and I am tempted to replace it... However, apart from the "feel good" factor; just how useful are they in a real MOB situation in heavy weather?

By the time I leave the cabin or centre-cockpit and throw the thing, the boat will be a considerable distance from the MOB. Throwing it into the wind would be well nigh impossible I would think.

Leaving aside any legal niceties, does anyone have real first-hand experience of using a lifebuoy in anger? Are there any other systems that work? I really suspect that they are almost useless, but have no actual experience to back up my guess.

 

[alahol2]

I've wondered about that for a few years. I've carried a horseshoe lifebuoy for 38 years and it has never once left its holder in anger. Replaced it this year with the equivalent of a 'lifesling' which, at least, seems a bit more pro-active/multipurpose.

 

[Aja]

It really depends where you are. As you say if in the cockpit, you may be some distance from the casualty. If you're in the water, however.....


Donald

 

[richardh10]

Interesting this, as I have been mulling over the same thing, and have decided to bin it. I’ve never actually heard of someone using it in anger, and there are surely better things available. And if the situation is such that a horseshoe buoy needs to be chucked over, surely you would be wearing a life Jacket?

 

[pvb]

I'd say they're fairly useless, and I haven't used them for the last 25 years or so. I have a Lifesling, which seems like a more sensible solution, but I've never tried it.

 

[capnsensible]

Extremely useful, if not even vital. On the rare occasion you may get a person over the side, having something to hold onto is key. Whizz the boat round, go close by and chuck them the ring. best if it has a light and drogue too. Sort yourself and the boat out then motor back upwind to pick them up.

With practice, can take as little as two minutes.

But there again, nothing is worth having on board if you dont learn how to use it effectively and practice, practice, practice. :encouragement:

 

[[70521]]

To quote an instructor many years ago, if somebody goes overboard chuck everything that floats after them - it will help you find the casualty when you have turned the boat round to pick them up.

 

[Plum]

I am currently refitting my boat for a trip to the Azores from the Clyde. My horseshoe lifebuoy has seen better days, and I am tempted to replace it... However, apart from the "feel good" factor; just how useful are they in a real MOB situation in heavy weather?

By the time I leave the cabin or centre-cockpit and throw the thing, the boat will be a considerable distance from the MOB. Throwing it into the wind would be well nigh impossible I would think.

Leaving aside any legal niceties, does anyone have real first-hand experience of using a lifebuoy in anger? Are there any other systems that work? I really suspect that they are almost useless, but have no actual experience to back up my guess.

Agree that they are near impossible to throw, particularly into the wind. The only good use of a lifebuoy is for towing in a long floating line to circle the person in the water. Of far more use is a decent throwline. Throwlines are an extremely useful and effective piece of rescue/man over board kit. Most professional rescuers now favour one of this type http://palmequipmenteurope.com/product/pro-25-m usually about £38 each, which is much much easyer for the person in the water to see than some of the very fine white throwlines and can be quickly retreived and re-thrown as a simple coil of line (not in the bag) if you miss first time and is also strong enough to be used as a line to pull another boat off the mud without wasting time using a light line to transfer a larger tow line. I have used mine for real for a person in the water and also for pulling boats off the mud and now would not be without one on board. They are also easy to wash and repack after practice and rescues.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[richardh10]

I like the look of that. Thanks for the link

Agree that they are near impossible to throw, particularly into the wind. The only good use of a lifebuoy is for towing in a long floating line to circle the person in the water. Of far more use is a decent throwline. Throwlines are an extremely useful and effective piece of rescue/man over board kit. Most professional rescuers now favour one of this type http://palmequipmenteurope.com/product/pro-25-m usually about £38 each, which is much much easyer for the person in the water to see than some of the very fine white throwlines and can be quickly retreived and re-thrown as a simple coil of line (not in the bag) if you miss first time and is also strong enough to be used as a line to pull another boat off the mud without wasting time using a light line to transfer a larger tow line. I have used mine for real for a person in the water and also for pulling boats off the mud and now would not be without one on board. They are also easy to wash and repack after practice and rescues.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[penberth3]

...I have used mine for real for a person in the water and also for pulling boats off the mud and now would not be without one on board...

Your choice, but I've got a thing about NOT using safety gear for anything else.

 

[zoidberg]

Agree that they are near impossible to throw, particularly into the wind. The only good use of a lifebuoy is for towing in a long floating line to circle the person in the water. Of far more use is a decent throwline. Throwlines are an extremely useful and effective piece of rescue/man over board kit......[/url]

Spot on!

The best use for an existing 'next-to-useless' lifebuoy is to attach a 150' length of strong line to it, then use it as a 'Seattle Sling' - which is the way a LifeSling is intended to be used.
The RORC have been encouraging this for a couple of decades, as have other authorities, but not AFAIK the RYA.

See here: http://ptsail.org/2013/02/20/crew-overboard-rescue-with-life-sling/ and others.

 

[dunedin]

Extremely useful, if not even vital. On the rare occasion you may get a person over the side, having something to hold onto is key. Whizz the boat round, go close by and chuck them the ring. best if it has a light and drogue too. Sort yourself and the boat out then motor back upwind to pick them up.

With practice, can take as little as two minutes.

But there again, nothing is worth having on board if you dont learn how to use it effectively and practice, practice, practice. :encouragement:

So regarding the OPs question, is this based upon real MOB recovery in offshore conditions, as opposed to practices?
And was the MOB wearing a lifejacket?

Lifejackets and lifesliñg are higher on my priority list, but not binned the belt yet (more because it might be of use at anchor when lifejackets are unlikely to be on and a while before could get to a casualty.

 

[mbroom]

Some nice replies... but apart from training, has anyone used one in anger? I know that if my crew goes overboard, it will take me several minutes to set things up on my own. My boat is a Moody 376, and on my own, I can struggle to adjust or set sails on my own in a short period of time. My only real MOB was many years ago in a racing dinghy in a moderate sea. I lost sight of the crew after a few seconds and despite my training ( I was a dinghy instructor then), I could not see him at all and failed to pick him up; luckily there was a rescue boat.

I am tempted towards the sling, but again this may just be wishful thinking.

 

[Ludd]

Some nice replies... but apart from training, has anyone used one in anger? I know that if my crew goes overboard, it will take me several minutes to set things up on my own. My boat is a Moody 376, and on my own, I can struggle to adjust or set sails on my own in a short period of time. My only real MOB was many years ago in a racing dinghy in a moderate sea. I lost sight of the crew after a few seconds and despite my training ( I was a dinghy instructor then), I could not see him at all and failed to pick him up; luckily there was a rescue boat.

I am tempted towards the sling, but again this may just be wishful thinking.

Going into Portuguese waters, they do like to see one. They are of some use if attached to a dahn buoy.

 

[Resolution]

Some nice replies... but apart from training, has anyone used one in anger?.

Yes. Once in forty years sailing. Racing in a regatta in Hong Kong on a UFO 34, we spinnakered over the finish line with one crew sitting on the boom (as one did in those days). After the line the helm lost concentration and accidentally gybed. The boom crew was catapulted wonderfully cleanly out into the sea. Another crew, who had spent most of the race nursing a hangover on the aft corner suddenly came to life, grabbed the horseshoe and threw it hard at our MOB, hitting him in the face and breaking his glasses. The horseshoe undoubtedly enabled the boom crew to stay afloat long enough to be recovered back on board, and then provide him with something with which to hit the hangover man .

 

[Andibs]

I have a horseshoe but when I got my first boat, I started carrying a throwline straight away. Having kayaked and canoed white water for years, I found it quicker to deploy, could go a lot farther and was more accurate. Working on the assumption that the MOB was already wearing a LJ, they don't need the bouyancy. If the MOB knows how to get into the correct position, they are also a lot easier and more comfortable for the casualty than a horseshoe.

Andy

 

[capnsensible]

So regarding the OPs question, is this based upon real MOB recovery in offshore conditions, as opposed to practices?
And was the MOB wearing a lifejacket?

Lifejackets and lifesliñg are higher on my priority list, but not binned the belt yet (more because it might be of use at anchor when lifejackets are unlikely to be on and a while before could get to a casualty.

All I can say is this.

Its a regular subject on here. People have their opinions on what is best.

I like to offer an opinion and am always ready to learn. But. Having been a sailing instructor for the best part of 25 years, this is absolutely one thing I do have a strong opinion on and would really like to help people with because its so important.

On lots of boats and in lots of wind and sea conditions Ive probably practiced this stuff more than 7000 yes thousand times.

If you quickly stop a yacht by turning through the wind, get your main pinned hard in and go back to your casualty you are halfway there. Pass the lifering. Do your Mayday call. Go straight downwind, start your engine and roll up your headsail. There is only one place your person is. Directly upwind. Motor back and gettem. Simple.

Works every (r) every time.

Now if you want to know how to do it if the engine is cream crackered, I can discuss how 2000 or more goes at that work too!

And how to do it in big seas and heavy airs, dont be worried about practice. :encouragement:

 

[capnsensible]

Spot on!

The best use for an existing 'next-to-useless' lifebuoy is to attach a 150' length of strong line to it, then use it as a 'Seattle Sling' - which is the way a LifeSling is intended to be used.
The RORC have been encouraging this for a couple of decades, as have other authorities, but not AFAIK the RYA.

See here: http://ptsail.org/2013/02/20/crew-overboard-rescue-with-life-sling/ and others.

Oh yeah, putting lines in the water near propellors..... what could possibly go wrong.......

 

[Triassic]

Personally I carry one but it's not attached to the boat with a line or anything like that. It's sole purpose is to be something that can be thrown at or after somebody who has gone over the side in order to help locate them again. If they can get to it and wave it that's a bonus, if they can't then something bright yellow floating high on the surface is going to be easier to see than a head or hand. Sure the wind might blow it away from the MOB but that's something that can be taken into account and allowed for. I suspect a lot of people have cockpit cushions etc that might be used for the same purpose, mine however are pretty lightweight and get put below if it's anything other than a gentle breeze. Having said all that I do brief my crew not to be preoccupied with the lifebuoy initially, their priority has to be to stop the boat, not going to the pushpit and chucking stuff at me! As a result I to am considering wether it's really worth carrying.

 

[greeny]

A friend of mine used his when he found a "swimmer" at sea a couple of miles off the NW Spanish coast. Relaxing in the cockpit he heard someone shout and spotted him floating past his stb quarter. Quickest thing to do was chuck the horseshoe buoy to give him some buoyancy then get setup for recovery. A very lucky Spanish holiday maker. It certainly came in useful that day. He'd probably not used it either for the last 30 yrs. but when needed it was there. For the price why not have one available?