Are Day Skipper and YM theory courses worthwhile?

[tico]

Agree with most of the above but FWIW......

If you learn anything new it will be worth it!

OK so some parts arent relevant, but theres lots that is... Weather forecasting, col regs, lights and symbols, pilotage etc, all of which are indepandant of electronic aids.

It's a good way to spend 1 night a week thru the winter.

You also get to meet some other raggies and understand their problems a bit better.

My recomendation wd be to go for the YM course straight off. I think that DS might be a bit simple

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[hlb]

Re:A Navigatory Night Mare

I was once going to Alderney when my reading glasses fell apart. First one eye piece fell out, then the other, then the frame fell to bits. Luckily the boat was on auto pilot and as always spot on course. But I had to radio Alderney for the tide times. Cos I could not read them!!

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[BrendanS]

Far from turning off GPS during the gulf war, they turned off selective availability, so that accuracy increased tremendously. (Subsequently, selective availability has been turned off permanently for some years now)

It would have been quite a feat turning it on and off anyway, as there were planes in the air pretty much permanently, and there's not much point turning all the satellites off, when only a few of them cover the Gulf region.

Bit of an old wives tale really that seems to keep cropping up.

Just as an aside. One reason that has been touted for why they turned off selective availability, even though the military have GPS which can ignore the random signals and give accurate results even in SA on, is that they bought and issued thousands of hand held civilian type sets to the military for use during the war.

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[powerskipper]

If you do your dayskipper/ yachtmaster theory, the GPS, CHARTPLOTTER is easya to get to grips with.
CJ

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[BrendanS]

Don't understand your point - I don't have any problems using plotter or GPS - I was answering a misconception about GPS being turned off during the Gulf War (it wasn't)

I'm also doing yachtmaster theory, and the navigational bit of it is actually quite basic, nothing I haven't done previously in many years of flying and mountain rescue.

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[powerskipper]

sorry pressed wrong button ment as reply to first posting, regards GPS, they just made it less accurate, think up to mile out but would need to check, now beleive up to 50ft or so depending on set.
CJ

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[BrendanS]

They haven't changed anything as far as I can see. Accuracy is typically to within 15' unless there are obstructions.

If you turn on WAAS. then it's possible to get down to within 3' when they are testing Egnos systems, but it's only in testing at the moment so better to keep WAAS turned off.

If you are referring to GPS being one mile out because RN bumped a ship, then complete cobblers. GPS is not this far out ever unless there is something seriously wrong with your set or it's lost reception.

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[wishbone]

The point to ds & ym shorebase course is that they cover many aspects ie weather, collision regs, boyage and lights and safety on board, I had a great tutor Ken Abson (now retired) I have no axe to grind between raggies and motor boaters, you pays yer money you takes your choice, both are seafareares! we had both in our classes, a good tutor can make it enjoyable, took vhf in the same class.
All in all you get out what you put in, Ken covered a very wide aspect of sailing.

Wishbone.
would I do it again "you bet"

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[BrendanS]

>>All in all you get out what you put in<<

Yep, well said

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[BrendanS]

Just re-read your post, and I suspect I have an inkling what you are talking about...Gulf War????

No, the accuracy didn't decrease, No they didn't turn off GPS. They actually increased the accuracy.

They turned OFF Selective Availability (SA).

People seem to think this means the accuracy decreased. Nope, selective availability was a means to decrease accuracy of GPS, by introducing random errors into the satellite signals, unless you had a military set which could ignore selective availability.

During the Gulf War SA was turned off so that the soldiers using standard GPS sets could have accurate positions. This meant accuracy rather than going down, went up to about 15'.
After the Gulf War, selective availability was turned off permanently, and accuracy has been at about 15' ever since.

Once the current WASS (US ) and new Egnos (European) systems are common use with sets that can use them, then accuracy will be down to 2 or 3 feet

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[petem]

Ah, but I'd also do it again, purely for something to do in the winter and any knowledge gained is better than none.

However, I still stand by my original points that there is too little focus on motor boating and also there is too much overlapping, i.e. you will learn a lot of the same stuff (as I did) on DS Theory, YM Theory and DS Practical. And too much focus on traditional navigation when everone's primary source of navigation today is electronic.

Also, it is far better to have any practical tuition on one's own boat where you can learn how to handle your own boat and also get your wife involved so that she doesn't run you over and chop you in two trying to recover you when you fall overboard.

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[BrendanS]

the thing is, are you coming at this view point from a perspective of already understanding maps and charts and basic theory and want to know more about using electronic navigation, or not at all interested in the basics of navigation

When confronted with the question 'what do all these colours mean' and having to explain that blue means water, it puts a different perspective on what these courses are attempting to cover.

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[hlb]

To sum up the mumbo jumbo. Boat acuracy is just about spot on as near as you can be. Less you have a very sharp pencil or a chart better than GPS. Which mostly was written in 1800 what ever and is a few feet out. Point is. there is not a map of the world that is pin point accurare. And theres no need for one, cos far more problems come into play.

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[BrendanS]

Pretty much spot on.

Still cannot fathom why people think GPS was turned off during the Gulf War. Can even less understand why they perpetuate myths propogated by Sun and Star newspapers and otther wankerish sources

If they don't know, why state it as fact. Urrgg! Makes me angry

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[byron]

Not having done any of these Courses I am not qualified to answer on their worth. I do know this though, I once had a dude phone me from the classroom because the Instructor didn't know the answer to a basic power boat question.
My personal thoughts are... the more qualified a person, the more bits of paper they have, the more casual and cocky they become. I am a prime example of this and sometimes horrify myself with my laid back attitudes. Using my fingers as Dividers and a book edge for courses, sometimes not even switching on the GPS. The best sailors I have known have all been qualified by experience (discounting Robin Knox-J) and some of the worst have had bits of paper from the RYA.
I grew up without all these wonderful elecronic aids. When Decca first arrived you couldn't buy a receiver, you rented it at £26 p.w. and shipowners looked at you aghast if you asked for one. Gawd luv us, approaching the UK from the Atlantic after days without a star or sun sighting and in fog I would have cut off my Willy for a GPS.

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