Another Brick in the Wall.

[sailaboutvic]

Ouch! Why the dig?!? I'm afraid that I can't help my timing, nor could I stop the stupidity of Brexit single handed!

Perhaps you could be so kind as to point me to one of your previous posts that explain how a non-EU citizen can stay in the EU legally for more than 90/180? I understand that there may be other visitor's visas available, but I don't recall very much discussion on here about them?

I'm sorry, but in this instance, I'm not interested in bending rules. I do not wish to be barred from the EU!

In that case you have 90/180 days to follow , good lucky with it or do what others have done and get residency in another country .
By the way there no dig just a bit fed up with some suggesting I living in a dream , when its them that got the problem not I

 

[sailaboutvic]

Most Brits aren't going to have a problem , quite a lot go home in the hottest months so they can get around the 90/180.
Others are only out for a short time .
Sailors who go the the EU for summer holidays aren't there long enough to worry .
Other basically stay in the some country's ie Greece Portugal and they sorted out the residency.
Which leave the cruisers that do cruise all years around from country to country as myself .
Some will just have to leave the EU for period of the times others who are happy will do the EU dance , I guess talking to some of my fellow Brits cruisers, it's a 50/50 split .

 

[cherod]

this is what i was suggesting yesterday , possability of crossing to Africa for ones " time out " , as a cruiser rather than what sometimes looks more like from an expat / emigrant position . ( not that that makes that any less relevant to those involved )

 

[Tony Cross]

Also don't forget that if your boat is not EU vat paid (or for whatever reason is deemed to be not VAT paid), as will be the case with any boat bought in the UK after Dec 31st 2020, the boat itself will be using a temporary importation transit log that must be renewed by leaving EU waters (thankfully for only on day). You'll need to manage your 90/180 day time with the renewal of the boat's transit log - especially if you leave the boat in the EU whilst you return to the UK.

 

[Alicatt]

Maybe a bit of light at the end of the tunnel with regards to residency and freedom of movement, I posted the EU Parliament agenda for 2021 in another thread on here.

??The Honesty Thread?? Dual Residency, Tax Treaties, Driving Licenses, Boat Taxes, Health Cover & Other Implications Of Life In 2021 & Beyond

 

[RupertW]

Most Brits aren't going to have a problem , quite a lot go home in the hottest months so they can get around the 90/180.
Others are only out for a short time .
Sailors who go the the EU for summer holidays aren't there long enough to worry .
Other basically stay in the some country's ie Greece Portugal and they sorted out the residency.
Which leave the cruisers that do cruise all years around from country to country as myself .
Some will just have to leave the EU for period of the times others who are happy will do the EU dance , I guess talking to some of my fellow Brits cruisers, it's a 50/50 split .

And many will be able to do what we are - applying for EU country citizenship from parental roots. So for me it’s Irish and my wife it’s Polish. Overall there will be a way but it’s more restrictive and more hassly.

 

[25931]

How many times have you demanded that posts that do not centre around you and Portugal should be moved somewhere else. This post started about uk sailers sailing in the EU with a non EU citizenship next year. Yet it offends you as usual because as far as you are concerned the rules Portugal accept (at this time) are what is important. Greece and the the med countries are not important and should be moved to the lounge. Pack it in, this forum is NOT about Nortada and Portugal. Stop it, you are getting to be a bore.

The rules for residency are still based on the 183 day rule. It is simply not possible to fit dual residency into one calender year. The present situation where a citizen of an EU member state can also have residency in another EU state is simply smoke and mirrors and only looks like dual residency.

This is obviously because residency cannot be denied to a citizen of his citizencship yet appears in practice to be the same as residency in a member state where he is not a citizen. The rules for registration of a yacht are NOT met with the citizens state IF he has legal residency in another member state. The yacht MUST be registerd in the state of residence. Your holy Portugal may be turning a blind eye because UK is still a member in transition. You are consistently misleading people on this forum that because your buddies in Portugal fly a flag of citizenship rather than the official flag of residence than you must be right because they get away with it. Wait until next year when the citizenship of a UK yachtsman becomes a very important issue.

This post is in the yachting and boating section of ybw. Get used to it.

Not a nice attitude, if you don't like Nortada's posts just skip them when you see his avatar

 

[Graham376]

Not a nice attitude, if you don't like Nortada's posts just skip them when you see his avatar

Easy enough to do. His suggestion about country specific areas does I think make sense as it's hard to concentrate and weed out facts when posters chip in with irrelevant comments about how their country does things. My knowledge is Portugal and I refrain from posting on threads about other countries as I have no personal knowledge, only hearsay.

There are EU laws but various countries have their own interpretation, some have dual residence and tax agreements with UK, others don't so, what may be allowed in one place may not be elsewhere. As said in a previous post, under UK and EU law, it's impossible for some to meet the terms of dual residence with 183 days in each country in the same year but, as things stand at the moment, a blind eye is turned. This may change once we're logged in and out and if the law has to be strictly observed, many of us could be up s*** creek.

 

[25931]

Easy enough to do. His suggestion about country specific areas does I think make sense as it's hard to concentrate and weed out facts when posters chip in with irrelevant comments about how their country does things. My knowledge is Portugal and I refrain from posting on threads about other countries as I have no personal knowledge, only hearsay.

There are EU laws but various countries have their own interpretation, some have dual residence and tax agreements with UK, others don't so, what may be allowed in one place may not be elsewhere. As said in a previous post, under UK and EU law, it's impossible for some to meet the terms of dual residence with 183 days in each country in the same year but, as things stand at the moment, a blind eye is turned. This may change once we're logged in and out and if the law has to be strictly observed, many of us could be up s*** creek.

except in leap years.

 

[Graham376]

This from HMRC guidance - RDR3 Statutory Residence Test

You’ll be UK resident for the tax year if you have, or have had, a home in the UK for all or part of the year and the following all apply:

• there is or was at least one period of 91 consecutive days when you had a home in the UK
• at least 30 of these 91 days fall in the tax year when you have a home in the UK and you’ve been present in that home for at least 30 days at any time during the year
• at that time you had no overseas home, or if you had an overseas home, you were present in it for fewer than 30 days in the tax year

Can a boat be deemed a home?

 

[RupertW]

This from HMRC guidance - RDR3 Statutory Residence Test

You’ll be UK resident for the tax year if you have, or have had, a home in the UK for all or part of the year and the following all apply:

• there is or was at least one period of 91 consecutive days when you had a home in the UK
• at least 30 of these 91 days fall in the tax year when you have a home in the UK and you’ve been present in that home for at least 30 days at any time during the year
• at that time you had no overseas home, or if you had an overseas home, you were present in it for fewer than 30 days in the tax year

Can a boat be deemed a home?

I don’t think so from an HMRC point of view unless you declare it as such - that’s certainly what I would argue.

 

[Graham376]

I don’t think so from an HMRC point of view unless you declare it as such - that’s certainly what I would argue.

If that's accepted, then it would appear many people can meet the residence rules if new country allows dual, minimum of 183 days in new country and minimum of 30 days in UK each year. Would be interested to hear what source BurnitBlue used when making the statement - It is simply not possible to fit dual residency into one calender year

 

[GHA]

If that's accepted, then it would appear many people can meet the residence rules if new country allows dual, minimum of 183 days in new country and minimum of 30 days in UK each year. Would be interested to hear what source BurnitBlue used when making the statement - It is simply not possible to fit dual residency into one calender year

Remember that your quote above is just *one* test for residency, it's much more complicated that it used to be and can be quite tricky these days to meet the criteria. A colleague was hammered for tax when the revenue deemed that a few weeks staying with her parents in the UK meant she had available accommodation in the uk so she wasn't non res and they got loads of tax money.

 

[Graham376]

Remember that your quote above is just *one* test for residency, it's much more complicated that it used to be and can be quite tricky these days to meet the criteria. A colleague was hammered for tax when the revenue deemed that a few weeks staying with her parents in the UK meant she had available accommodation in the uk so she wasn't non res and they got loads of tax money.

Agreed, there are many different personal situations and I was looking at it from the angle of the majority of people I've spoken to bending the residence rules. They are retired UK homeowners and tax payers but have taken up residence elsewhere specifically to cruise some of Europe without 90 day rule but without any intention of settling there.

Many, such as ourselves, are not looking to avoid paying UK taxes which is where all our income is. Trying to work the system in both countries for tax avoidance is a totally different ball game and I don't want to even think about that.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Agreed, there are many different personal situations and I was looking at it from the angle of the majority of people I've spoken to bending the residence rules. They are retired UK homeowners and tax payers but have taken up residence elsewhere specifically to cruise some of Europe without 90 day rule but without any intention of settling there.

Many, such as ourselves, are not looking to avoid paying UK taxes which is where all our income is. Trying to work the system in both countries for tax avoidance is a totally different ball game and I don't want to even think about that.

OH GRAHAM your no suggestion that people should bend the rules ?
And there me thinking I was the only one that did.
Becarefull my old mate you end up getting a getting a slap

 

[Graham376]

OH GRAHAM your no suggestion that people should bend the rules ?
And there me thinking I was the only one that did.
Becarefull my old mate you end up getting a getting a slap

Who me? I only took out residence for a parking permit.

 

[nortada]

Remember that your quote above is just *one* test for residency, it's much more complicated that it used to be and can be quite tricky these days to meet the criteria. A colleague was hammered for tax when the revenue deemed that a few weeks staying with her parents in the UK meant she had available accommodation in the uk so she wasn't non res and they got loads of tax money.

Not wishing to be pedantic but quote,’ she wasn’t non res’ do you mean she wasn’t non dom, so far as I understand it non doms have no tax liability - that is what it is so popular with the mega rich.

Same is not true with residency Understandably getting (and keeping) non Dom status is not easy.

When it comes to me, I pay all my direct taxation in the UK but if required would be happy to pay some in Portugal so long as the same income was not taxed twice.

 

[GHA]

Not wishing to be pedantic but quote,’ she wasn’t non res’ do you mean she wasn’t non dom,

No. non resident. She was living and working constantly on the move around the world non resident in the UK (or anywhere) for tax purposes but a after a month staying in the UK with parents the revenue decided she was resident after all as there was specific accommodation there. Followed by a large bill....
Going non res is actually easy *if* you meet the criteria to satisfy the revenue, which isn't so easy for most.
AFAIK changing domicile is a big deal.

 

[greeny]

Going non resident for tax in Uk is subject to a plethora of tests which you have to meet as GHA says. It's not that difficult if you genuinely live abroad and are resident in that country you are living in. In the old days and for some people now even, going non resident in the uk and then flying under the radar in the country in which you are residing was a method of avoiding paying any tax anywhere. I think we all know that, and probably all know people who have done it and still are doing it.
Those days are fast disappearing over the horizon and it is getting increasingly difficult to not pay tax anywhere. Brexit and the issues about residency requirements in other European countries will certainly not make it any easier for those people to dodge the system any longer.
To me that's a good thing, I don't see why anyone should avoid paying their way in the country they chose to live in. Reducing your tax liability to the minimum legally required is one thing but totally opting out by illegal methods is another.